Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

Part 6: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

985 replies

AndHarry · 15/08/2014 17:12

Sorry, lost the end of the thread there!

Thread 5

OP posts:
PigletJohn · 06/09/2014 22:49

is no-one going to blame Hamas for "making" Israel steal homes and land?

maami · 07/09/2014 03:59

Piglet:

Hamas forces israel to steal land and kill babies by flattening thier homes over them... Even though they were doing this 20 years before hamas even came into existance.... But... This stealing business is soo complicated you see.. Even a 5 year old could understand.

Get this: they are at war with hamas...So they steal land from west bank.

3 teens are killed in the westbanks.. Israel decimates babies in gaza.

Its..... complicated.

TheHoneyBadger · 07/09/2014 07:55

how's this for complicated:
-thou shall not kill
-thou shall not steal....

this is not about jews or judaism and i have every respect for people who make tenets like the above central to their lives, whichever religion or indeed no religion, inspires that.

this is more about cynically exploiting and pretending this is about religion so as to shield behind it and use it as a shield of deflection re: saying that criticising murder and theft is 'anti-semitic' Hmm

we are criticising actions not ethnicity or religious identity and the actions in question are the antithesis of the central tenets of the jewish religious ethnicity and beliefs anyway. hence so many jewish rabbis and individuals around the world joining us in criticising the actions of israel and finding it repellent having such actions done in their name.

QnBoudi · 07/09/2014 08:24

I don't get the motivation, but I don't doubt the intention. Conspiracies abound and who's to say they're not based on truth. Plenty of circumstantial evidence and why else is the massive PR machine needed/funded? CounterPunch.org/2006/04

TheHoneyBadger · 07/09/2014 08:50

generally follow the money is the key. who has the most to gain from destabilising the middle east? and who has form for doing it repeatedly.

QnBoudi · 07/09/2014 08:58

I feel like i'm in a real-life version of Inception. How in/credible is this???? globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

TheHoneyBadger · 07/09/2014 09:47

it makes the 'creation' of isis very, very convenient doesn't it qn?

TheHoneyBadger · 07/09/2014 09:50

i've tried to avoid commenting on these theories on here to avoid 'ooh conspiracy theorist' attacks or detracting from the topic. it is difficult not to end up seeing a wider picture when one looks at the complicity of our own and the US government in israel's war crimes and their history of involvement with creating/installing/training so called terror regimes.

one of the things that is striking about isis is the illogic of who it is acting against not to mention that apparently at least one leader lives in tel aviv.

maami · 07/09/2014 16:54

Some of the motivation behind 'mowing the lawn' .. ( israeli speak for decimating gaza every few years..).. 'mentioned below:

The Israeli wrath inflicted on the Palestinians of Gaza, two-thirds of whom are refugees, entitled to the right of return, comes within an ideological context of tribal bigotry, racism, and exclusivism. In 2004, Israeli Professor Arnon Soffer, Head of the Israeli Occupation Force’s National Defense College, and advisor to Ariel Sharon, spelt out Israel’s macabre expectation from the unilateral Israeli disengagement from Gaza (2005) in an interview with The Jerusalem Post:

“[W]hen 1.5 million people live in a closed-off Gaza, it’s going to be a human catastrophe. Those people will become even bigger animals than they are today,… The pressure at the border will be awful. It’s going to be a terrible war. So, if we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day…If we don’t kill, we will cease to exist…Unilateral separation doesn’t guarantee “peace” – it guarantees a Zionist-Jewish state with an overwhelming majority of Jews”

Then, there is the view bluntly expressed in 2002 by Israel’s then chief of staff, General Moshe Yaalon, which sums up the objective of the current blood bath: “The Palestinians must be made to understand in the deepest recesses of their consciousness that they are a defeated people”.

....The Israeli establishment’s stated goal of annihilating Palestinians to manage the “demographic threat” and to maintain “calm” by “mowing the lawn” (Israeli-speak for flattening Gaza every two years) is exactly why we in Palestine have concluded that the Palestinian struggle for self-determination must work to isolate apartheid Israel in the same way that apartheid South Africa was isolated through a campaign of Boycott, Divestments and Sanctions
(BDS.)

winkywinkola · 07/09/2014 17:00

Archive on 4 on Radio 4 next Saturday night at 8pm is all about this. Should be interesting.

LondonGirl33 · 08/09/2014 07:53

What Hamas and Iran are saying is that if and when Israel pulls back to the pre-1967 lines, they, together with other Palestinians, would bring weapons into the West Bank to achieve their goal of eliminating the "Zionist entity."

Abbas's initiative also ignores that Hamas could easily seize control of the West Bank through force or through the promised free and democratic elections, which recent polls show Hamas is assured of winning. Abbas is demanding something that would bring about his own demise.

Full article here:

www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4676/hamas-west-bank

maami · 08/09/2014 09:44

Laughable article really. You really think israels existance is under any threat?

What a waste of billions of US and british tax payer money.... investing in the israeli military.

TheHoneyBadger · 08/09/2014 13:13

it is all SO clear isn't it?

it becomes sort of pointless to intellectually engage in a 'discussion' when both morally and intellectually it is so bloody clear.

without a belief in racial supremacy, or being on the receiving end of the gravy train produced by supporting the regime - personally profiting from it, there's nothing to question or discuss really itms. to anyone without that belief in racial supremacy or without a financial stake in its continuance israel's actions are entirely indefensible.

we live in a very messed up world

QnBoudi · 08/09/2014 20:26

London girl, if you make these substitutions in your post, you might see what others are so angry about.
Hamas/Iran - Israel
(Just for sake of argument, leave out if/when ... 67 lines)
Would bring weapons - did bring weapons
West Bank - Gaza
Zionist entity - hamas (and several hundred friends, relatives, neighbours and assorted children)

The point is that Israel already did (many times in the last 70 years) exactly what you know to be bad!!!

Springheeled · 08/09/2014 22:21

It's mind bending to think about what happened last month in Gaza. And what is happening with settlements now.
I am amazed that Palestinians can withstand this existence and amazed that the world can allow it.
Sorry, nothing fresh to add, but really, it's so astonishing- like something out of an absurdist drama. The scale of the destruction, the scale of the lies!

QnBoudi · 08/09/2014 23:29

London girl, here's the wider context to hamas pronouncements - www.timesofisrael.com/heading-toward-a-renewal-of-the-gaza-conflict - though 'impatient/impatience' aren't the words I'd use to describe how Palestinians must be feeling. I think Rafeef Ziadah's much more apt: www.m.youtube.com/watch?v=sLUirMONjm0 . I'm not sure the link is working, but if not, search for "shades of anger (English subtitled)".

QnBoudi · 08/09/2014 23:42

Struggling with links, but while you're on you tube, check out Rafeef doing "We teach life, sir" and weep for our pathetic sound bites and biased bloody reporting. This was 2011 and have we moved on at all? Life is indeed a bitter lesson to learn. We are all Palestinian.

maami · 10/09/2014 07:41

We are all palestinians

Agreed.

One thing that stuck out for me again and again during the recent massacre is that whenever someone had just lost thier home or loved ones..and reporters woud put a mic infront of the survivers for thier reaction.... all they would say is 'God alone is our witness' 'God is sufficient for us'.

That is the only response i heard repeatedly... And i thought it was a testimony to the sheer strength of their faith that gets them through this horrendous situation that they are stuck in.. and secondly very poignant because they are right.. They really have noone else who is able and willing to intervene and stand up for them beyond offering words.

You can see how bad it is that they are still struggling to apply to get any recognition from the UN as a seperate state called palestine...where israel has had one since its creation.

You can also see how bad it is when the ICC refuses to accept thier case for israeli war crimes...under pressure from the west.

All they have is the worldwide support of the public and the grassroot BDS campaign.. . And that too only came until recently!

OneEggIsAnOeuf · 10/09/2014 16:55

IDF to open criminal probes into 5 Gaza war cases.

TheHoneyBadger · 11/09/2014 08:18

bit of a PR job coming up then.

i want it investigated by international forces, not high military officials in the israeli army.

sergeantmajor · 11/09/2014 14:20

One of the positions that I find so hard to understand from the anti-Israel voice on this thread is why they claim simultaneously:

  • Israel is not under threat
  • Israel should be annihilated

And with regard to Arab governments who openly declare their intention to annihilate Israel....? Deafening silence.

alemci · 11/09/2014 14:48

i know Sergeant

TheHoneyBadger · 11/09/2014 15:20

could you list the posters who have said israel should be annihilated - i can't think of one but am happy to stand corrected.

PigletJohn · 11/09/2014 15:53

"the anti-Israel voice on this thread"

I am one of the people who is critical of the actions of the State of Israel.

Do you mean me?