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Part 6: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

985 replies

AndHarry · 15/08/2014 17:12

Sorry, lost the end of the thread there!

Thread 5

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TheHoneyBadger · 16/10/2014 08:56

but it is nothing like that example - this is an example of murdering thousands of people then complaining because someone uses a phrase to describe it that you find offensive. bit of a difference.

TheHoneyBadger · 16/10/2014 09:06

it's like me going and slaughtering a bus load of people and then complaining that someone described my actions like that of crazed animal and that actually i found that sexist because women have traditionally, for thousands of years been considered less than human.

a) it's that tenuous b) it's that crazy (re: choosing to focus on my hurt feeling over words rather than the busload of dead people at my feet) and c) it is about an aggressor being criticised for their actions.

it's not an office dispute over pc'ness. it's a pile of dead bodies ffs!

AndHarry · 16/10/2014 09:18

Ok, last shot.

Imagine that scenario re-done in the context of Idi Amin's rule in Uganda. Amin's regime was responsible for the murder, torture and displacement of hundreds of thousands of people. Originally, Amin was a low-ranking officer in the British Colonial army. He went on to award himself the official title of 'His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshall Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa and Uganda in Particular'. In this case, no matter how perfectly apt it might be and no matter how horrible the subject, 'uppity' would still be a racist description for him because of its connotations for all black people.

We have repeatedly re-established on this thread that criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitic and that it doesn't matter if Israel finds criticism offensive because no one is exempt from being told the truth in case they're offended. I am pointing out that in a very specific context, a mode of criticism that would be acceptable in relation to Iraq, Russia, Cambodia, Syria etc. is not acceptable in relation to Jews or Israel because of serious historic prejudices, going back centuries, associated with that form of words that affects all Jews. It isn't particularly difficult to avoid blood metaphors while harshly criticizing Israel for its actions and to deliberately use them knowing all of the above is anti-Semitic.

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PigletJohn · 16/10/2014 09:28

It seems to me that we are entering a period where prevailing opinion is less sympathetic and accepting of Israel's policy of ethnic cleansing, and the stealing of homes and land, and the oppression of Palestinians by overwhelming military might.

The fact that one loud-mouthed polician uses a phrase which some Israelis and other Jews find offensive is a matter of supreme unimportance.

There has never been a shortage of loud-mouthed and offensive politicians, in Israel or anywhere else.

TheHoneyBadger · 16/10/2014 10:41

exactly. perhaps we'll put the 'nest of snakes' 'kill the mothers too' politician in a room with loud mouthed galloway and they can argue it out. the rest of us are better off focusing on the lives of innocent people.

AndHarry · 16/10/2014 11:05

Now that I would like to see :o

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justasecond · 16/10/2014 11:19

To not use blood imagery about Israel in the context of its murder of innocent palestinian children and civilians because of centuries old antisemitic propaganda (which frankly I and I am sure many others did not have a clue about) is just bonkers. Saying Netanyahu/Israel "has blood on his/her hands" is not antisemitic. If someone was saying "Netanyahu is using Palestinian children's blood to make matzo" then that is.

sergeantmajor · 16/10/2014 13:49

Did anyone see the C4 interview by Krishnan Guru-Murthy with the son of the Hamas leader?

www.channel4.com/news/mosab-hassan-yousef-my-father-a-hamas-leader-i-was-israeli-informer-green-prince

You have to admit, the man has balls.

Yruapita · 16/10/2014 23:50

I must admit, I had never heard about the blood on hands or the child sacrifice stuff.

AndHarry, could you please start a thread 7 please? I know i said I would do it, but since you are back on the thread, It would be impolite to start one myself. I just feel that here on mumsnet, we should continue raising awareness of the plight of the Palestinians.

I received a letter from my mp stating that she voted in favour of recognition of Palestine. So relieved that Europe is pulling away from Israel. Will continue the Israeli boycott.

Israel is widely now seen as an obstacle to peace . Nutty yahu's attempts at diverting attention from his own unwillingness to give peace a chance and yet pointing his finger at Iran (and IS and Iraq and Hamas, more recently now Mahmoud Abbas) as being a threat to peace (all the while pressing ahead with more settlement building).

AndHarry · 17/10/2014 08:11

I don't know that I dare Yruapita but here you go: Thread 7

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