A Malaysian plane has been shot down in the Ukraine.

[WeAreEternal]

The flight mh17 from Amsterdam to kuala lumpor with 295 people on board, it was a boing 777.
It was shot down with a buk ground to air missile.
They say there are no survivors.

It's awful.

Sorry posted too early.

Does not sound scripted. At all.

You can hear the rapid buck shifting as it dawns it was c

Here is the Daily Mail's Ian Birrell, who is a well-connected progressive who sometimes writes columns for the Guardian and was a former deputy editor of the Independent and worked as a speechwriter for Cameron in the 2010 General Election.

"The big question is what happens if it is proved Putin’s friends in eastern Ukraine have shot down a civilian passenger jet filled with families, holidaymakers and business travellers?

Will the West finally respond with the ruthless decisiveness required to put a power-crazy president back in his box, or will they continue to allow him to sow death and destruction as he acts out his Tsarist fantasies of restoring Russian hegemony over swathes of eastern Europe?"

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696702/The-blood-Putins-hands-IAN-BIRRELL-ramifications-downing-flight-MH17.html#ixzz37o7DmH00

Progressives and hawks are escalating the rhetoric and talking of "incredible repercussions and "ruthless decisiveness" before anyone even knows what caused his tragedy.

I'm so sorry for the families and the victims they must have been terrified.

I'm seriously scared about all the tension in the world the Russia- Ukraine situation, ISIS, Israel- Palestine war, the ME in general, Boku Harem and Al Shabab in Africa we just seem to be on a collision course for conflict

FFS, the Teleraph has reported details of some of the bodies- including things that would identify a child victim to his family. How can this be right?? How can that even be justified? We can all imagine quite well enough how awful it is by just saying 'bodies'. FFS.

Even if the black boxes get handed to Russia it does not mean that a cover up will happen, people are fucking deluded if they think Russia will just say they contain X and everyone will have to put with it. There will be a proper investigation and many countries will be involved.

Yes indeed, a proper, utterly transparent, multinational investigation is absolutely what's needed.

Like Butler-Sloss having to stand down from the child abuse inquiry, the investigation must not only be unbiased, it must be seen to be unbiased. Because as you say, people will NOT put up with Russia just saying the box contains X. If there's room for even a suspicion of untruth, that itself will do the damage.

That's why people are concerned if the box has been sent from the Ukraine to Russia: it's not the ideal first step. I really hope the Russians send the box on to an international team.

Aargh Phone.

The intercept does sound very genuine.

The conversation runs totally realistically ,right down to the slight soft g a - tyalnetnaya bumaHa - of a Ukrainian Russian, the swearing, the guy in the background pointing our that the first body found was a woman, the buck shifting despairing tone in the voice of the separatist " it was the Chernukhinskys" - the Cossacks at the checkpoint, and the desperate tone of the Major clutching at straws - "Were there weapons? Documents?"- the resignation and despair in his voice when he realised what has happened. Then the very Russian bluster , incomprehension and buck shifting "
Must be spies - what the fuck are they doing, there's a war on" - Good point for Malaysian Airlines that.

I believe just like the Kursk this is cock up rather than conspiracy. But just like before the military will divert and obfusticate and Russian sources will use what they are told.
Drown Russians in details - we have already had a computer run down if the weight of the plane, the history of MA , industrial problems at Boeing, the coincidence with the Israeli attack on Bremya tonight. I fully expect an in depth look at Schipol, Kiev and a special on the One the Ukrainians shot down this evening.

Like one mother screamed at the sons of bitches responsible for the Kursk they are bastards, bastards who should tear off their medals .

But their puffed up pride and fear of the top means they will never admit their incompetence and stir all the shit in the world to hide it.

The BYk is destroyed or half way to Siberia

I'm not looking at the news. I'm sticking to this thread which I've been keeping track on.
Seeing photos of bodies while upsetting to me isn't harmful to me. I don't want to see all these pictures you're talking about though as respect to the victims and their families and to show I don't approve of the style of reporting.

I read this thread desperately hoping that someone would say that they (the people onboard) would have know nothing. It agonises me to know how scared they must have been, especially the children.

The media reporting has been quite irresponsible. There has been no investigation as yet so they can't say with 100% certainty that it was shot down. Yes it might seem likely but when it concerns the deaths of hundreds of people and an incident of international significance, I wish they would stick to the facts. The same applies to the politicians.

There will be a full enquiry and the truth will come out. The UN will demand that and Putin is not the gangster he is made out to be, so he will want an inquiry too.

No one yet knows why this occurred and we won't know until an inquiry has been carried out into it.

The following is a report of something that happened in 2001 when the Ukrainians accidentally shot down a Russian plane over the Ukraine.

"Ukraine finally admitted yesterday that its military shot down a Russian airliner that crashed into the Black Sea last week, killing all 78 passengers and crew.

Evhen Marchuk, the chairman of Ukraine's security council, conceded that the plane had probably been brought down by "an accidental hit from an S-200 rocket fired during exercises".

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/1359353/Ukraine-admits-it-shot-down-Russian-airliner.html

The video thankfully didn't show the victim's faces it all - the person behind the camera was just surveying the scene generally, not focusing on them IYKWIM. So the PP who mentioned the look on their faces must have seen other footage. The debris field actually looked pretty small - not a huge area but haven't seen any helicopter footage. most of the major bits of the plane seemed to be in that small area so could it be possible it wasn't hit by a missile at all? Perhaps it malfunctioned or was tampered with and just went straight down, slam, into the ground. That's the impression I got from the footage.

God, it's all just so awful

Debris is spread over 15km according to BBC.

Puppet Ukrainian Yats issuing tough statement. Says this "is the war against the word"

Sorry "this is the war against the world" says Yats.

We are in 2014, the centenary of a world war and the progressives, puppets and hawks are ramping up the rhetoric of a "war against the world".

This is probably one for asking pprune, but if a missile was "locked on" to the plane, would the pilots have known before it hit?

BBC News 24 keeps flashing breaking news headline that

"Ukrainian PM says Russians "done for" after crash."

Has anyone seen the transcript of what puppet Poroschenko is saying because I can't find it online.

Well, If I were the head of Ukraine, I would be ramping this up massively. It's in his interests to shout to the world that the Russians are mad. It's a a terrible gift to his side in the propaganda war :(

Most of the evidence does suggest it was Russian separatists/Russians horrendous mistake though doesn't it?

Its important that this does not escalate further.

i just found this video. Some commenters are saying it's actually of a crash in Afghanistan and this is Russian propaganda but the scenery and explosion fits in with other videos/images of the crash - eg there's one of an explosion all over the news but it only appears after it seemingly hits the ground - you don't see any midair evidence of it.

More from the spanish air traffic controller (seems he was interviewed by a news station?). Unconfirmed, but interesting.

This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.

Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.

Beyond from my understanding only military aircraft carry missile detection software. I don't know if anything would have briefly shown up on their radar though.

ok, it was Afghanistan. DH said he saw it last year and the reason was a chain holding a tank broke loose and the plane lost center of gravity. still very sad for those in board :(

JohnFarleysRuskin, politicians are supposed to act responsibly and not ramp up rhetoric unles they have proof. Of course the hawks never do that, but you expect Presidents etc not to be hawkish.

The Ukrainian Yats has just been shown on BBC News 24 saying that "the bastards" who did this must be got. But what happens if the Ukrainians did it by mistake? We don't yet know who did it. Let's wait and see who did it and then let's see what Yats says.

claig Forgive me, but your posts read as cold, jumped up, salivating at the mouth tin foil hattery as if this is some exciting conclusion to a
a political thriller film you have been watching and waiting for.

Hawks? Puppets?

These are real people who have died. Let's keep that in mind as we discuss the facts behind it.

Saga, let me introduce to you claig's normal posting style.