Oscar Pistorius Trial Part 5

[Roussette]

Time for a new thread - Part 4 nearly full

I haven't seen the jeans on the patio photo before. The can be significant otherwise how come the state didn't mention them?

I had a scroll through that twitter account mentioned previously. Utterly vile. I don't believe that person is connected to OP and has probably never met him or Reeva.

*cant be significant.

the blood on the cricket bat probably came about because the bat was on the bathroom floor. When OP picked Reeva up and took her downstairs there was basically a trail of blood through the house. If there was any hint that OP used the bat ON Reeva we can be fairly sure the prosecution would have at least hinted at it. They did not

I didn't think about that. I didn't think he had used it on her, I just didn't think of it being placed in the bathroom, from how small the area was. I guess I'd imagined, trying to get in an area in a panic, opening door and flinging it behind you rather than taking it in a small area with you.

I'm not a blood spatter expert, however, it was a small area, it was very messy, and there was a lot of movement going on.

How could the jeans outside the window not be relevant?
Surely they warrant a question at least?

The blood spatter on the cricket bat could possibly be from RS hair dripping on it maybe. She was bleeding from several different places and when OP picked her up to carry her downstairs it could maybe have dripped on it. Pure speculation on my part.

I've never seen that photo Ronald it does seem really odd that they've not been used in evidence! although who's jeans are they as aren't the ones in the bedroom Reevas?

no they aren't the jeans from the bedroom but they don't look like man's jeans

Ronald - if the state had thought they were significant Nel would Have asked about them. They might be Ops.

There was something about this or on one of the other threads about when he got home there being a row and him throwing things out the window.
(I know not if this is true but I read it somewhere. Maybe it is but the neighbours closest to him aren't testifying.)

bobblewobble the bat was in the larger bathroom area - the toilet was a cubicle off the main area with bath and shower IYSWIM. The bat was on the floor having been, as you say, placed on the floor as he fought his way through the door into the toilet

Since we have some down time I have a theory to present . I know it is long winded but please hear me out.
My first thought is why would RS not run out of the bedroom to get away from OP? If the alarm was set it would have eventually triggered and called the police or security. Even if the alarm was not set she was still at a great advantage getting outside the bedroom and down the stairs. OP would have had to stop and put his prosthetics on which would again given her a head start. Even if he had his prosthetics on she would have been able to maneuver the stairs quicker than him. But if she felt she didn't have time to get out the bedroom door due to it being locked and the cricket bat in the way and ran to the bathroom instead to get away from him because he was so pissed why was she standing so close to the door once inside the toilet. If it was space she was looking to put between them why still stand so close to the only thing keeping them apart? Seems like she would want to put more distance between them than just the door . If they were arguing he would have more than likely been standing on the other side of the door yelling at her. Would it seem logical that she would still place herself so close to him? If he was on the other side of the door screaming at her she didn't need to be so close to the door to hear him.. If he was so pissed she needed to get away from him and feared for her safety she must have thought he was capable of using a gun. Even if she didn't think he would actually use it why put yourself in the line of fire just in case. Wouldn't she have backed away from the door as he screamed at her as his anger is what she was running from. Why not maybe cower in the corner. . If as Nel says she was standing close to the door aruging with him she would have had time to phone or text someone before he shot. However, if she was already in the toilet holding her phone as a light getting ready to use the rest room or already started urinating (I can't find a confirmation on whether the toilet contents were tested for urine) but we know her bladder had approx, ½ teaspoon in it so she used the restroom relatively soon before the shooting. Maybe she was going to do number 2 which explains the food stilll in her stomach. While sitting on the toilet with her phone in her hand she hears OP yell out something about an intruder in the house. Startled she stands up to pull her pants up, drops the phone in the toilet grabs the door shut which ends up slamming the door and locks it. She stands close to the door in an attempt to hear and figure out what is going on. She has no reason to fear being close to the door as in her mind OP knows she is in the toilet. OP calls out for her to phone the police but she is unable to as her phone is in the toilet damaged. She does not respond to any of his calls to him as she does not want to give her location away. Then the rest of the story plays out like OP has stated.

Or she was running away from him & his gun & was just locking the door as he shot & nothing he says is true. I'd hate to be the judge - there's just too many ways to look at the facts!

Absolutely!

And because there are so many ways to "read" the situation that is reasonable doubt

The toilet was tiny, there was no where for her to hide. I think she locked herself in the bathroom as part of a row but had no idea how far he would take it. She probably just stropped off into the toilet like any one of us might do during an argument.

Certainly and interesting and plausible account upnorth, but doesn't explain how Reeva managed to go to the toilet without OP seeing or hearing her leave the bedroom. According to his version they were both awake, he was up moving fans and putting jeans over a light on the stereo, Reeva was sleeping on the side of the bed where he was messing about with fans so how could she get out of the bed without him noticing? Also there is the issue of the neighbours hearing raised voices/screaming before the gunshots.

Also,upnorth, if Reeva was in the toilet about to go, who opened the window which was the noise that OP said he heard which caused him to grab his gun?

I have thought about all of this but didn't want to make the post so long as to bore you all stiff. I will get back to you on your questions. I am just trying to take both sides of the story and see if I can make any sense of them. Thanks for the input.

Okay, here it is.
wakes up and RS is awake," says can't you sleep Baba"? She was already awake. He gets up to bring fans into room. It probably was a bit more trouble to bring the fans in as opposed to an able bodied person therefore OP would have been more involved in the procedure than most of us .Can imagine.since RS was awake she decided to get up and go to the bathroom. Since OP is at the end of the bed messing with the fans she slides over to his side of the bed and heads to the bathroom. Since she had been awake before OP maybe she had been awake for a while and her eyes were adjusted to the dark and didn't need to use her phone as a light on the way. Op is preoccupied with the fans and still half asleep himself so didn't notice RS get up to go to the bathroom. Had fans blowing in his face so could not hear the sounds of her feet shuffling across the floor. He also had just spoken to her so assumed she was still in bed. ( I am not saying this was a good idea)She is out of site by the time he is finished closing the doors and blinds. She opens the bathroom window on the way to the toilet as it is hot and stuffy in the room. She starts to pee with the phone in her hand while OP is going to get his gun from under the bed as he heard the bathroom window open. He heads towards the bathroom gun in hand screaming “intruders get out of my house and Reeva call the police. She is first startled by this and as a result fumbles the phone and drops it in the toilet. She grabs the toilet room door and slams it shut and locks the door. She stands close to the door as she is trying to hear what OP is saying and what is going on. She hears OP say Reeva call the police but she can't because her phone is in the toilet. She doesn't respond to any of his calls to her as she doesn't want to give away her location.

I want to state that I did not intend to offend anyone if able bodied was not the correct term. I am not familiar with the terminology and if I did offend anyone I apologize.

how did Pistorius see the jeans on the floor of his pitch black room?

where do we get the information that Ms Steenkamp's phone dropped into the toilet bowl?
it is common that your bowels empty and that you urinate upon death, therefore the empty bladder info isn't that important except that the defence are trying to say that she had gone into the toilet to empty her bladder

Upnorth sounds plausible, however the problem here is that so many things sound plausible so how does one work out what the actual truth is?

I have to say this whole phone in the toilet bowl, I have not heard this, I don't know where this info is coming from, can someone show me the evidence this was stated in court? I can't find anything to do with it, unless I missed it.