Oscar Pistorius Trial Part 5

[Roussette]

Time for a new thread - Part 4 nearly full

I don't know of many (any) people who were annoyed by it except as I suggested OP himself,
I had spoken about why OP may have felt conflicted in his feelings toward RS at the time he killed her. I said her management had advised her not to go public about their relationship and was accused of speculating or making it up.
I said I could not remember my source but that i would find it, which I did.

Louise came up with the link to a video which was made following the killing where the management confirm the advice they gave to RS about the relationship being bad for her 'brand' so I'm not sure why you are not asking Louise about it.

I' think I must be misunderstanding you.

Stack, I agree. I think the intruder story came to him because of another case in SA in which a former sportsman (can't remember which sport) killed his own daughter, thinking she was stealing a car. It would have been well known in SA, I would think.

Well... if he knew it was RS in the toilet and he killed her in a fit of temper, he had no choice did he, but to spin the intruder story. It just seems to me like he has tailored events/evidence to fit this story, but what do I know - maybe it will all become clear over the next few weeks.

Watched it now and can see that the comments were made after her death but about how they felt about her relationship before her death. Though I get fromtheprogramme that they would have felt this about any high profile person she might have been dating. It wasn't particular to OP.

There is something in trying to think through and I'm not sure what I am actually thinking or what it means.
If OP came up with the intruder theory, then Reeva needed to be in the toilet cubicle and shot through the door. So did she escape to the loo with her phone to call the police (that slip, I'm asking why is she calling the police?) during a row with him waving a gun around or did he go and get it because she locked herself away?
The latter can't be - she would have had time to call someone for help, even a text saying she was scared. So the only conclusions I can think of are he is telling the truth or he was waving a gun around and used it because she locked herself away.
But I'm not sure I'm making sense to myself.

YNK I guess it depends on your definition of the word "bad" . To me that suggests very negative connotations whereas they just they wanted her to have her own identity instead of being seen as a WAG.

On the other hand if an agency has two not-dissimilar models up for a job the fact that one of them is going out with one of the country's major sportsmen might just swing it, so I would say it could have its advantages too.

Hillwalker - Rudy Visagie

Thank you, Louise. OP May also have know that Rudy Visage got away with it.

Known not know

Yes Louise, but RS had told OP that despite whatever feelings they may have for each other, she intended to follow her management advice and focus on her career.
Given that he had behaved petulantly at her perceived slights on several occasions, I do not think he would have taken kindly to this.

YNK maybe but there's a huge difference between "not taking it kindly" and blowing someone's head off (to be blunt)

Nerf I thought he said "why isn't she calling the police" but it's a bit mumbled so it could be either.

I still don't get why she would lock herself in that loo if she was terrified? The lock on the bedroom door obviously wasn't that great (as people keep pointing out) and she was fit. I would think that she could have got the door open and run downstairs while he was on his stumps or there was another bathroom upstairs (which is bigger)and she could have locked herself in that one and not been trapped in such a tiny loo with no room for manoevre. Or why not run onto the balcony and scream her head off?

I think someone has suggested that OP could have been blocking the bedroom door but then she would have had to go past him to get to the bathroom anyway so again, the balcony makes more sense. The only thing I can thinkg of is if she was already in the bathroom and it suddenly blew up.

Of course now I' m speculating and you know I hate that

Nevertheless Louise, that is exactly what he did do,

Yes but that might not be the reason, might it?

Ah Louise I think we all fall into the speculation trap now and again

One thing that keeps going round in my head which maybe entirely irrelevant, OP stated on the stand that he heard the window in the bathroom open, he was absolutely definite about this, and that is where the whole intruder scenario emanates from. Now my problem with this is that when someone hears something at night which may indicate an intruder they usually say "I heard a noise". When my parents were broken into, dad heard an unusual noise and got up to investigate, it was only after the event the noise could be identified as them removing a window. OP identified the noise specifically as the bathroom window not that he heard a noise and thought it was the window and I find this odd, he can identify the sound of the actual bathroom window opening, but cannot identify the sound of a washing machine?

I dunno just seems strange..!!

The reason i Was asking Louise was because I was originally responding to a post she made, not a post you made. Then I was asking you to clarify your response to the question I asked Louise.

Confusing I know.

Emotions didn't he say something specific about the noise that the window made? I can't remember exactly though and I'm off to bed now.

I do see your point, quite often we do just hear "a noise", although the time I thought someone was in the house in the middle of the night I heard the floorboards creaking as someone walked on them. Actually it wasn't anyone at all, but that's what I thought it was!

More than that emotions, he said he heard the window hit the frame as it was opened.
Nel asked what the frame was made of and he said they were all made of wood.
However there is no wooden frame for the end panel to strike since it slides into the middle.

Louise, yes he did say the window hit the frame.

YNK didn't know that about the window and frame.

There is an awful lot in this house that either makes specific, identifiable noises or isn't working - bedroom door lock doesn't work, air con doesn't work, toilet light wasn't working. Window bangs on frame, toilet door sticks and makes a noise on the custom made frame, hmm all these seem a little convenient when they play such a part in his story.

Anyway I need to find my bed too, and if my damn cat makes the creepy noises he made last night which had me thinking someone was rattling the door he'll be looking for a new home!!

'night all, sleep well.

I think lots of people lock themselves in rooms if their partner gets in a rage. It is common.
It buys them time to think and most people calm down during the enforced period apart, kind of a time out. Some people don't react well to this and it makes them worse.
I still feel that she locked herself in the bedroom and then the toilet. His info about breaking down the bedroom door made no sense at all to me.
I think she will have been shocked by the arguments and was just getting by minute by minute. I don't think she would have imagined he would shoot her. She was standing facing the door when he fired the first shot.

We only have OPs word that her phone was with her in the toilet.

I think lots of people lock themselves in rooms if their partner gets in a rage. It is common.

It might not even be him who's in the rage. I've done it where I need to calm down and think with some space. I go into the bathroom because it's one place he can't follow me.

I recognise that, particularly in this context, that makes it sound like I'm constantly running from DH who's constantly berating me. I'm not, honest! I'm just saying, sometimes in an argument, where one person just won't let it go and keeps saying the same things in different ways and you can't quieten your head long enough to know if they're being unreasonable, it's not unusual to find a way to create space.

Again, this is all conjecture. It's just it's worth recognising that there are a number of scenarios where she might have chosen to go and lock herself in the loo, ranging from 'she needed a wee' to 'she was scared' to 'she needed some space.' And probably countless others.

That's why the circumstances and the speculation is sort of important - people are testing out these scenarios to see which is most likely. I think 'she was scared' is not as likely as the others, because she didn't call for help, either through the window or on her phone. I personally think that makes it unlikely that she's seen the gun. Yes, she might have been frozen in fear and we can't know what was in her head, but I personally think that's less likely than 'she needed space' which might explain why she didn't make a call, or simply that she needed a wee.

I think she was trying to talk to him or reason with him through the door - that's why the first shot hit her, she was full on stood there.
Disclaimer - this is speculation!

He was very specific on hearing a noise of 'wood' (the window) which is his justification for firing but not aiming

OPs version: He heard the bathroom window opening which alerted him to the intruder. The toilet cubicle was locked and he heard a sound like the lock being turned which prompted him to fire . In hindsight he says this must have been the magazine rack moving as the lock in fact wasn't turned.
I don't know what to think. For the intruder theory to work she needed to be in the cubicle or at least somewhere he couldn't see her. So either she ran there seeing the gun, was in there and he fetched the gun, or he didn't know it was her.

I hadn't realised he'd said he heard a lock being turned, was that in the testimony or the bail statement?

In the testimony when he talks about the shooting he says he heard a noise like wood which he thought was the lock and then says it must have been the magazine rack moving as obviously with hindsight the lock wasn't turned.