Oscar Pistorius Trial Part 5

[Roussette]

Time for a new thread - Part 4 nearly full

Again I keep coming back to how could Pistorius hear a bathroom window opening but not hear Ms Steenkamp get out of a bed and walk to the bathroom?

I think it may have been a dreadful argument
Him shouting "get the fuck out of my house",
Her locking herself in the bedroom
Him breaking down the bedroom door
Her locking herself in the toilet window
Him opening the bathroom window himself and starting to throw her things out of the window
Trying to break the toilet door down, being unable to do so as the door opens outward
Furious and in a complete rage
Gets gun, tries to shoot out the lock
Kills Ms Steenkamp

OP: I noticed her cellphone had fallen into the toilet. I could see her arm was hanging and broken.
OP: I pulled her phone out of the toilet but I couldn't unlock it as it had a password on. I ran to the bedroom to get my cellphone and phoned Mr. Stander.

Where has that come from upnorth can you link please?

Here you go FreeLikeABird

Excuse my ignorance, I can't seem to figure out how to post a link but here it is to copy and paste.

news.sky.com/story/1239408/oscar-pistorius-trial-stenographer-updates

Thanks upnorth, well I'm even more confused, how can a cellphone that's been sitting in water in a toilet bowl, for quite a few minutes, as no doubt Reeva had either dropped it by mistake in there or it happened when she was shot don't forget OP had to get his prosthetics on and break down the door, no cellphone would still be on and working, it would have no screen, how did he know it needed a pass code

I think the empty bladder has to be taken at face value. There is no evidence of involuntary bowel or bladder movement (and that would come out in evidence) and she had a tiny amount of urine in her bladder when killed. The toilet bowl iirc was clear.
That's all we know.
No idea.

The toilet bowl was full of the contents of the shooting

Is he suggesting that he fished the phone from those contents and then imagined that he could use it?
Also there is no need to use a passcode on an iphone for emergency services
Also at that point why call Stander

Why not simply dial for emergency services?

True. Ronald you make good points

I agree re the empty bladder
Was the point also made a trial that her bladder could have been emptied 30 mins to an hour before?

Perhaps she went to the toilet earlier in the evening and left the window open then?

However, it still begs the question as to why Reeva would open the bathroom window, bedroom door is locked with a cricket bat against it, alarm is on, OP is busy securing the patio doors and then Reeva goes into the bathroom and opens a window that has no burglar bars on it and would allow an intruder immediate access into their securely sealed bedroom, Reeva was well aware of crime and the necessity of taking precautions, it makes no sense to me.

I am just speculating with this whole thing please remember this but... In the frantic moments after finding RS I can see OP seeing the phone and instinctively picking it up (see phone pick it up) since he needed to call for help ASAP. Not thinking straight he didn't think about the fact that emergency services can be called without a passcode. He may have tried the phone it didn't work and he was thinking at the time it needed a passcode instead of the fact that it didn't work due to it being in water.
As for why call Mr Stander head of security before calling the police. It appears there is a longer response time for the police than security at the housing complex. If you will notice all of the ear witnesses called security instead of the police.
As for how OP saw the jeans in the pitch dark room. When he was messing with the fans he was facing towards outside and the curtains were open some. He may have seen them at this time. Since he didn't have his prosthetics on he would be closer to the ground and may have been able to see them quite well.
As for how OP didn't hear RS walk to the bathroom and was able to hear the bathroom window open. Again he did not have his prosthetics on at the time and indicated the fan was blowing in his face when he was moving them. This could have drowned out the sound of her walking to the bathroom. He was finished with the fans when she opened the window so was able to hear it.

RS may have opened the window on the way to the toilet as the air from the balcony doors was going to be cut off once the doors were shut. Opening the bathroom window was going to be the only source of air circulation after that. Taking a chance on the window being safe enough to open in exchange for some air circulation.

All sounds plausible upnorth but requires discounting totally the evidence of the ear witnesses who said they heard raised voices/arguing and screams before and during the shooting and one in particular was adamant that there were two different voices.

The lack of Burglar bars on the bathroom window is something Pistorius mentioned imo to make people think that this was the one room in his house that was vulnerable to burglars

None of the house windows have burglar bars

However he does live in a hugely secure estate
With armed guards that patrol hourly
He has a very advanced internal alarm system
A panic button
A perimeter alarm
Dogs roaming free in the garden
Guns galore

Does not change the fact that he felt the need to shoot and kill someone either in a rage or because he heard a noise
Was the fear of a noise reasonable given the circumstances of the situation?
Was it reasonable not to take the time to ensure that the panic button was hit?
Was it reasonable not to ensure that Ms Steenkamp was safe

Or was it something completely different and this is all tut to keep him out of prison?

Mr Stander isn't head of security. Stander is an estate manager and is his friend, security isn't his remit.
That is why Pistorius had to call security later.

Why did he not call an ambulance straight away? Before Stander?

My main problem with this is that the bedroom is surprisingly quite small - I find it impossible to believe that anyone was moving around in the room without someone else knowing.
His shooting at an intruder without making certain that it wasn't Ms Steenkamp given that he knew his girlfriend had been awake and chatting moments earlier...

If Pistorius say the jeans on the floor why did he not see Ms Steenkamp? It was either very very dark or not.
Pistorius seems to be remarkably alert at some points whilst being remarkably obtuse to his surroundings
Why did Ms Steenkamp not see the jeans on her way to the bathroom? She was a reported neat freak and had been awake for a while? Why didn't she move them?
Why did OP not switch off the amp rather than drape jeans on it

This area of his testimony, the fans and jeans felt entirely fictitious to me. None of it sounded true or made sense in any way

I like any theory that will back the idea that he made an honest mistake but I feel like his evidence has/is turning me away from that

Given that they were both awake would it not make sense for Reeva to switch on the bathroom light when she got there? OP was very evasive about when the light came on and the Stips both said the light was on immediately following the gunshots!

I'd love to know why she was eating if they were involved in an ongoing argument?

Maybe it was more snarking and snarling and became worse?

It seems to have become accepted that OP and RS ate together at 7 pm but that is only what OP has said. Why could it not be the case that they ate together at 1 am, instead of the assumption that she ate alone then. I think they were both awake, both ate at 1 am, then had a huge argument which led to the tragedy which followed.

As for her being close to the door of the toilet, maybe she was trying to hold the door shut as OP tried to open it.

Personally I think he's guilty.
However, if I lived somewhere that required a gated community with alarm systems, hourly patrol guards and dogs I don't think I would be able to think straight either.

I don't think it could have been a very relaxed meal.

He made a point of testifying that Reeva didn't understand the diet he had to follow.
She was there when he arrived, having previously asked if she could cook for him and shopped that day for ingredients.
She had a Valentine gift there for him which she told him he couldn't open until the next day.
He came in, spoke briefly to her and went upstairs for a leisurely bath (although at first he told Nel he had a shower). He then changed his clothing and browsed the internet before going downstairs about an hour later.

He doesn't sound like he was really making as much effort as her as a chicken strip stirfry would have taken her 5 minutes to cook.

I would have been furious at being kept waiting for an hour if I was preparing to cook a valentine meal!

YNK, this is something which had confused me. I seem to remember a message from Reeva to OP asking if she could cook for him on Thursday ie 14 Feb, and his reply was that he would love that. How, then, did she end up cooking for him on the 13th?

Hmm, yes that does ring a bell Hillwalker, but I can't remember why. I seem to remember she was not going to be staying with him on the 14th.
I know they were going to pick up a bracelet the next day though.

I wonder if any of that meal ended up in the bin, or indeed in the dogs! That's where it would have been if I was the one cooking!

Maybe i am just a bit more touchy than Reeva, but if I had gone to all the trouble of checking his special diet (after being criticised for my lack of sport nutrition knowledge), gone shopping, having arrived in advance of him then being kept waiting for an hour while he faffed about upstairs, I would have made him wear his bloody dinner!

Would anyone move a fan without switching it off first? Not something I'd do, but obviously everyone is different.

The bracelet thing is also something I'm unsure about
I found hi testimony hazy here. I am not led to believe it means anything though as I don't celebrate St V. I think he made it up as inferences were being drawn from his not having bought a gift, given that he killed her.