Oscar pistorius

[spiderbabymum]

Heard the news this am

I'm just Devastated for him and his family and partners family

Dreams, where did I mention his skin colour? I would imagine a rich, high profile, black person would be heightened risk as well.

I'm sure rich, influential people do at times go to prison in SA...the question is whether they are remanded to await trial (or anywhere near as recognisable as OP if they are).

No you didnt Andro, I never said you did, but that is what he is. I heavily dislike that people think he should get special treatment, that is so dangerous especially in such a voliatile country.

But this, I'm sure rich, influential people do at times go to prison in SA...the question is whether they are remanded to await trial (or anywhere near as recognisable as OP if they are). I dont understand your reasoning? Should we not mix the rich with the dirty poor?

Seriously, I`m sure you dont mean that at all, and I agree he may be a target, so many prisoners are targets for one reason or another, but come on we cannot start treating people differently because of status.

Did I say it was ok for people with disabilities?

I don't think those conditions are ok for ANYONE, let alone those not convicted of a crime, LET ALONE those, not convicted, with disabilities!!!

But why should iot be different for one person?

Anyway the prison system in SA is a different thread, it should not really have a bearing on OP case.

The main differences between the paraplegic man on remand in the article & OP:

Paraplegic is much more severely disabled than OP (level 4, no bowl or bladder function).
Paraplegic is poor and cannot afford bail - OP is rich & can.
Paraplegic is charged with FRAUD - OP actually did kill his girlfriend.

DreamsTurnToGoldDust, I agree. Discussions of the subhuman conditions in SA prisons should be concentrated on the need for general reform, not presented as grounds for making an exception of a high profile subject.

My reasoning is based on his wealth making him a target for extortion - his wealth WILL hugely increase his (already significant) risk of serious harm - and the potential risk to his family.

To be honest, it's not just the status related risks I'm having trouble with. I can't justify to myself the vastly increased risks he would face (compared to mr average) on the foundation of the evidence given by the police at the bail hearing...incomplete I would have expected, incompetent I would not. The thought that OP could face months of physical and sexual abuse, end up with one or more life limiting conditions and then be acquitted because the case wasn't sufficient to prove murder/the investigation had been so badly botched up just doesn't sit right with me. I would be having less of a problem with the thought of him being remanded if I was actually convinced by the evidence thus far that the state has a good chance of forming a solid case - I'm still sat firmly on the fence so a possible death sentence by-proxy feels even more unpalatable than it otherwise would (and it would always be unpalatable).

I'm sorry, I don't think I'm explaining myself clearly...

Apparently there is no evidence that the bladder was empty!

Ack Andro, I do know where your coming from, truly, Its an emotive subject, we get emotive, all of us. I`m very anti-death and it does sound horrific, although what would happen if he is found guilty? And should any man be subjected to that in prison, absolutely not, but that has to be a different thread I guess.

I have no desire to see any man wrongly convicted, but I am a massive believer in all men (and woman) to be treated as equals.

Andro going by OP's version only he shot an unknown & unseen person 4 times and killed them. He admitted this. It is murder - there is no question of that. We aren't dealing with an "innocent until proven guilty" situation here.

The only question is to the degree of murder he should be found guilty of and can he prove it was self defence. Its up to OP to prove it was self defence and there is very little evidence (to date) to suggest that this would succeed.

Sorry - he shot AT an unknown unseen person 4 times.

We do all need to remember that this is a bail hearing only, both sides have times now to get their cases together, so in a way bail is not conclusive of guilt of murder or manslaughter, I cannot see him leaving the country.

Dreams - no-one should be subjected to those conditions, but if the state manage to build the 'rock solid' case they insinuated they had prior to the bail hearing I would be able to reconcile it a bit better. I am also of the opinion that anyone seeking bail should receive it if the evidence presented is so shoddy, the profile and status of OP just forced the thought process in relation to the SA system.

BeCool - OP killed RS, there's no doubt about that...the doubt is whether the outcome of trial will be a custodial sentence. Should it be found that large chunks of the forensic evidence has been so badly handled as to be inadmissible it is highly likely that the premeditated murder charge will come to nothing - whether alternative charges could be considered by the judge I don't know. I am just really uncomfortable with the potential consequences of remand when the final outcome of trial could very easily be complete acquittal (if premeditated murder is the only charge considered) or none custodial sentence (if culpable homicide for example can be considered).

Andro, see I do think there should be some consequence to shooting dead a person, taking a life, no one has that right (ok, if you are being attacked then different, but he wasnt, only by thought if hes telling the truth) but I hate the conditions of a lot of prisons, I think everyone should have the human right to safety, but I realise I want an idealism that will probably never happen. But we are earlier days of this and the trial hasnt actually started, so we`ll have to wait and see what is actually presented.

Yep, very much a wait and see situation...by which time I'll have splinters in my butt from the darn fence!

Whether or not he thought there was an intruder, he armed himself then tracked down and fired 4 rounds into a door.

That to me is not self defence.

Anyone listening to the live feed from the court on BBC? Magistrate giving everyone a law refresher class and appears to be going over everything we've heard during 3 days of the hearing. You can hear the bums shuffling on the benches - just say it, Bail or No Bail!

Yeah got it on the bbc news channel

Why is he repeating it all?

Reckon he's heading towards granting bail?

It is dragging on isn't it? Either a total awareness of the focus and attention his decision has, or a total lack of awareness of the focus and attention his decision has. I can't quite decide. He knows everyone is on the edge, waiting or the decision, not least OP and RV's family.

Andro

I think the magistrate is covering his own rear end wrt whatever his final verdict is - the magistrate is damned whatever he does.

Yep I agree Andro, people are going to have strong feelings either way.

I think he will get bail