Nursery workers aren't educated enough...

[letseatgrandma]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17496323

What do you make of this? The suggestion is that poorly qualified/achieving teenagers tend to head towards a job in childcare or hairdressing whereas the report feels that standards of literacy/numeracy should be higher for those working with young children.

Presumably if the requirements for childrcare jobs change, the wages will need to be higher (and there is no money?!)? Where should the low achieving secondary school children aim to have a job?

I spent a lot of time liaising with nursery staff when I worked in the early years section of my local county council and am not surprised. Quite a few of the nursery staff I worked with had fairly patchy written English and weren't educated to a particularly high level [dons hard hat], and this seemed to be more the case with the younger ones. If you want to keep childcare cheap then you aren't going to pay enough to attract people with very high levels of education. On the other hand a lot of them were obviously very caring and engaged with the children, which probably counts for more than their familiarity with apostrophes.

I was disappointed.

The report on which this is based is not to be published until June.

I thought one of th thing this Government had undertaken to do was to stop policy by PR, and instead have the commentary when the report is made public. Not fish around on the basis of a few (incomplete) extracts.

I would prefer to see the Govt trusting those from whom it commissions reports, and also have more respect for the general publication by icing until th full report is available and its conclusions can be assessed in light of sight of the evidence.

Right now, I wouldn't want to comment as there are too many unknowns about what will actually be said. The general "nursery staff should be well educated" is an obvious "apple pie" statement that surely doen't need debate.

I have a 2:1 in Early Childhood Studies and I work with a lot of people with similar level of qualifications. Also most of my university course are working in nurseries and they all have degrees to.

The Early Years Professional Status is a postgraduate status that many staff members also have nowadays. We all work for nurseries and all for the minimum wage, so in my area I wouldnt say it isnt representative of the nursery workforce in this day and age, things have changed massively in the last ten years.

I would say it definitely counts for more than their familiarity with apostrophes. Someone who can love and care for babies shouldn't have to waste their skills working on a production line just because they can't spell correctly.

The focus of the report by Cathy Nutbrown is on the qualifications held by the early years workforce. For far too long the entry standards have been too low, with too many differing qualifications that are not all equally as vigorous. Also, head teachers are still steering the less academic towards so called vocational courses like childcare or hairdressing.
Our children deserve better than they are currently receiving in terms of properly trained, professional early years workers.
Of course pay is a big factor, lower status means lower wages and that suits everyone except those in the sector and the children whose futures depend on a decent start to life.

As long as they can read dosage instructions for medicine and do basic reading, writing and counting with children, I don't think a high standard of literacy is essential.

That said, I think professional qualifications such as NVQs should be encouraged and I think most good nurseries do employ qualified staff. I'd be more concerned if the staff weren't aware of the developmental needs and expectations of children.

gallicgirl - You have to be qualified or working towards Level 3 qualifications at the very least to work in a nursery.

Ahem - we don't actually know the focus of the Nutbrown report. It won't be published until June.

One can guess from its TORs, but the only thing we have so far is selective "policy by PR".

no, you don't
you can work in a nursery unqualified

I thought they had brought that in but I must be wrong. However I do know that in all the nurseries I have worked in the manager has had people enrolled on the level 3 course or they havent been allowed to start/stay on. This is all in nurseries that charge around 30 pounds a day so I dont think ensuring staff are qualified means you will pay a lot. It includes both council and private nurseries, again though looks like it depends on your area.

interim report
just under 10% are unqualified
here

It doesn't surprise me. Any care job is very low status. I expect that you find the same in care homes for the elderly.

I think it needs changing-but it doesn't surprise me.

i think it's true - they're not teaching children, they're looking after them.
there's huge difference.
why do they need to know how to write english well?

my sister is an nneb nursery nurse, and she has a dreadful grasp of the written word. she's bloody brilliant at looking after kids though.

I work on a supply basis in a nursery unqualified. However, I have swiftly enrolled on a Level 3 qualification before my LA's funding runs out.
I should add however I am a childminder so have attended lots of courses run by my LA Early Years Department. E.g EYFS training, first aid and SENCO.
I hold a 2:1 degree in an unrelated discipline.
However, IME it is hard to get a job in early years without qualifications. Hence why I am doing the level 3.

"they're not teaching children, they're looking after them"

oh dear
how wrong you are

If you work in Early Years you are definitely teaching children.
Please go and look at the Early Years Foundation Stage Framework and look at what is involved. Everything that those who work in Early Years do is done in order for children to reach their learning goals.

is it really that wrong?
when i said teaching, i didn't mean the general education that pre-schoolers get by playing (etc) and living day-to-day, i meant formal reading writing teaching.
I worded it badly.

I would go further cuffingchunt and propose that everything an early years practitioner does is in order for children to fulfill their potential to be well-rounded, successful adults capable of securing a job, raising a family and playing an active part in society. If that is not teaching children, then tell me what is. Childrens academic success at school depends on their early years experiences- it's not called the early Years Foundation stage for nothing.

Insancerre you are so right.
I obviously didn't go far enough!
It's sad that people believe that you are just minding their children rather than laying down the foundations for their later life.
Even childminders don't just mind children nowadays!

nickelhasababy
There has been much debate about the divide between care and education that doesn't actually exist.
The phrase that is used these days is 'learning and development' which takes a more holistic approach.

fair enough.
i did word badly.
the "teaching" i was referring meant purely academic.

I'm a little concerned if a certain level of literacy and numeracy becomes a necessity, how that would be implemented. I'm not suggesting that staff shouldn't be encouraged to work towards further qualifications, but I wouldn't like to see a situation where the lack of certain qualifications precludes a person from obtaining a job in this field.

For example, a few years ago I was looking to move into adult English language teaching. I have a degree in an unrelated subject and a basic teaching qualification (CELTA - not claiming it qualifies me to do much!). However, in order to move towards teaching in the adult sector, I needed a PGCE and there were only 5 suitable courses in the entire country, or a diploma.

The diplomas were usually part time studies and designed so people already working in that sector could get a nationally recognised qualification. this sounds great but it worked out that you couldn't get onto a diploma course unless you already had a job for teaching practice and you couldn't get a job without the diploma! I'd hate to see a similar catch-22 situation in nurseries where the demand for good staff is so much higher.

To become a Carer for a elderly person or a disabled person employed by agencies who send you into that child's or older persons home you need no qualifications whatsoever.
I think you should. We have had some worringly thoughtless people over the years who know chuff all about caring for and interacting for a disabled child. And dont care either. Its low paid and a filler in job.

Professor Nutbrown has recognised this point gallicgirl She is proposing that new qualificatins have a minimum entry requirement and that existing workers are given the opportunity to take qualifications in literacy and numeracy.

I imagine that years ago, education wasn't anything to do with children this young because all the workers had to do was look after children not educate them in any form. Since having children, I have been astounded at the poor levels of speech never mind anything else. So I think that's what has happened. Standards have been raised and children aren't being allowed to just play and the workers going into this area now have to catch up with the levels we are being told the children should be at, ie the adults working in this area (both young and old) have to catch up with todays little ones.