How do you get back to sleep when ‘bad’ thoughts creep in?!

[Redlocks30]

I’ve always been a pretty good sleeper until Menopause but it’s shocking at the moment.

I’m on HRT and seeing the GP next week to look a increasing the dose but I just wondered if there’s anything I can try a 3am when I wake up, my brain IMMEDIATELY pings into stress mode about (real) awful things-bad health issues, parent dying, financial planning.

Things that I can sort of deal with (or push out of my mind) during the day, but make me spiral in the middle of the night-proper palpitations, dread, fear etc I literally go from fast asleep to, ‘ooh, what was it you are currently stressed about-oooh, yes, there it is!)

I try thinking of other things-listing boys names starting with each letter of the alphabet etc but my mind just meanders back to the bad things! It’s nothing I can do anything about-crap situations that have to be dealt with, unfair situations I can’t change, unfortunate decisions that we have to live with but it is ruining me. I feel dreadful in the days-it’s giving me headaches and my eyes hurt.

What can I actually do? The horrible stuff is ongoing and won’t go away-I just wish I could be like a Jilly Cooper character from the 70s where you take a Mogadon tablet and the world goes black till you wake up! (I’m presuming they were probably not a perfect solution, anyway…!)

I have a Snoozeband and I put it on and listen to a really familiar tv show. It’s something I’ve seen a million times so I don’t need to pay attention. Just the familiar sounds sends me to sleep and stops the “monkey chatter” as I call it.

Cognitive shuffling - word games mine is think if a word like table and then think of a word for each letter trying not to repeat those words so table - table, abbot, blue, lapel, every then start again on the word every etc.
that or or put YouTube on to someone (not ai) reading Reddit posts- sends me off very quickly!!

This works for me too

Very occasionally, if really desperate, I get up and take a couple of paracetamol. I read once they have a mild sedative effect. I don't know if this is true, but after taking them, I find I can calm my mind long enough to drift back to sleep. It's probably a placebo effect, but who cares?

I have a fantasy world where I go before sleep, a bit like an extended holiday scenario where I have imaginary conversations with all kinds of people and inventing these dialogues keeps my brain busy (a bit like trying to write a novel in my head), it is never anything super exciting but always mildly pleasant and boring and makes me sleepy 😁 A bit like dialogues of boring 1990s daytime tv series

i guess i bore myself to sleep

I go back in time and walk through every house I’ve ever lived in.
I note every detail, open doors, sit on furniture etc
I never manage to get through a whole house, but it’s comforting and a ‘safe’ place to put my thoughts focus.

I listen to books on audible. The rubbish ones, not gripping ones. Then if I find a hidden gem, I can listen properly during the day.
I have been known to to jot things down. Those random thoughts of ‘oh I must do such and such in the morning’, and then panic in case I forget.

I listen to the world service on my alexa. I tell it to play for 20 mins and I'm usually asleep by then. I'm single so no one else is disturbed.

54321 grounding technique is great.

How to do 5-4-3-2-1 grounding

1. Look around and name five things that you can see around you. These could be a picture on the wall or a plant in the house. Think about the colours and shapes of what you are looking at. What do you like about it? What don’t you like about it?
2. Focus on four things that you can feel. This could be the chair you are sitting on or the feel of your clothes on your skin. Think about how they feel, are they soft or hard? Smooth or rough? Cold or warm?
3. Name three things that you can hear around you. You may be able to hear people outside or the wind blowing. Think about how loud or quiet the noises are. Are they noises you hear often?
4. Notice two things that you can smell around you right now. This could be a flower, the smell of your clothes or the shampoo in your hair. Think about what you like about that smell.
5. Focus on one thing that you can taste. If you can't taste anything, then instead you can choose your favourite thing to taste.

I’ve tried box breathing but it never seems to work for me.

i think i just get bored and give up. How long does it generally ttake for people who use it effectively?

im guessing I never last more than anywhere near 5 minutes. Maybe that’s the problem?

I used yo listen to adult sleep stories Nothing Much Happens. They're only called adult because they're not magical just everyday stories. I've never got to the end.

Currently reading The Sleep Book by Guy Meadows. Not got through it yet but so far says to let thoughts in and out again. Not to rely on counting sheep, tablets or watching TV, no podcasts etc. In other words no props. Just accepting that you can't sleep.
Not got to the end of the book yet so will see how it goes! Seems pretty logical so far though. There's an emphasis on mindfulness too.

I bought a little device called “calm carry “ you hold it in your hand and it emits small rhythmic pulses onto a specific hand point called the PCB acupressure point, that helps calm and relax you. It works for approx 20 minutes and switches off and 9 times out of 10 I’m usually back asleep.

A few rounds of deep breathing - in through the nose, out through the mouth
Followed by the alphabet game, usually with names, sometimes with a theme - names I love, names I hate, names ending in a vowel.
it pushes everything else out of my head and helps me go back to sleep, even if it takes a couple of goes.

I have been listening to spoken word at night for about 35 years. I have ADHD and my mind would just zoom around otherwise.

I listen to set things that I know well (so I don’t overly engage with them and wake myself up) but that are non challenging (nothing scary or thought provoking). I listen just loud enough to hear and if I wake in the night I reset it. It’s on a timer to switch off after 30 mins.

At the moment I am listening to Jane Austen novels but over the years I’ve listened to Eddie Izzard, Blackadder, Friends, Harry Potter, sometimes trashy novels I know well.

The official wisdom on insomnia would say this is wrong but it works for me.

I listen to guided meditations on meditainment.com I am not associated with them in anyway!

I do similar, but will also do things like my primary school, my gran’s house, buildings I’ve worked in, or a walkthrough the local shopping mall. (The shopping mall can also be go to Boots and buy bubble bath, go to Next and buy knickers (don’t @ me), go to M&S and buy mince pies and so on.)

Get ip and go into a different room. Take a piece of paper. Write a list called “things that are not going to keep me awake tonight”. Write everything down as it comes into your head in a stream of consciousness way - phone aunt Mabel, remember to order more cat food, ask DH to cut the lawn, review finances, politely tell idiot colleague at work what you think of their daft ideas for new project, world war 3, next pandemic, global warming, what to wear to work tomorrow- just as it comes into your head. Then fold it up and write W.A.I.T. which stands for Worry About It Tomorrow on the outside and put the piece of paper in a drawer. Close the door on it and go back to bed. Your subconscious will take note and you should be able to sleep if you have dumped everything properly on the list.

I started doing this and was amazed at how vividly my grandparents’ house (last seen in the 80s) came back to me, it was a much more immersive exercise than I expected.

I think with activities meant to induce sleep the needle will fall on various parts of the boring to interesting spectrum depending on how strongly you need to divert your attention from your brain chatter. I have no patience for tedious audiobooks or podcasts and my mind will wander back to my original worrying thoughts, so I need to be interested in what I’m listening to. Couldn’t bear the Calm sleep stories although I understand the logic behind it.

Not menopause related (Bloke!), but I've struggled with sleep on and off since I was a teenager.

The way I've always managed to deal with it is by wrestling my own brain to sleep by boring it to tears.

I tell myself stories, and every time I go off track I force myself to go back to the story, but I don't go back to where I left off, I go back a bit, so I end up telling myself the same bit of story over and over again.

The stories can't be too interesting, otherwise they defeat the point, so I don't tend to make stuff up, it's reliving old holidays, meeting DP, the argument I wish I'd won, that sort of thing.

So, an example:

"So, first day of our Disney holiday, we went to Epcot. First ride was Mission Space, but it was broken, so we headed over to Test Track instead. I enjoyed but it made Mum feel ill......How the fuck am I going to fix that sink, there's nothing to grip onto to unscrew the..... NOPE! So, as I was saying, first ride was meant to be Mission Space, but it was down, so we went to Test Track, did we book a Fast Pass? No, so we queued for that..... Need to sort out DD's school uniform, I'll pop to that shop tomorr... NOPE! So, we went on test track, Mum nearly threw up, then headed across to Nemo (brain gives up from utter boredom) ZZZZZZZZZZZ"

hey my mum has had something very similar for the past year she’s been on a lower dose of hrt for 5 years the past year she’s had issues with sleeping constantly waking up at 2am/ 3am no matter what time she goes to sleep she’s also described intense heart palpitations and racing thoughts once she’s awake she can’t go back to sleep. She was put on different sleeping medications from the dr but all made her very groggy the next day she’s tried nytol sleep aid and night nurse they kind of help if she’s wanting an extra hour. Anyway 3 weeks ago she was able to go on a higher dose of hrt and although it hasn’t stopped her 2am/3am wakes she is a lot calmer when she wakes although she has said her moods are very up and down at the moment but apparently it’s normal for up to 3 months

I put a podcast on. My brain listens to it while I go to sleep!

Podcasts - I’m a side sleeper so one ear bud in. And I slow down the pace to 0.80 - 0.90 which forces me to focus on the words.

If that fails, get up and either read a physical book or podcast & puzzle/colouring/knitting etc.
One thing that really helped me during a very stressful time (start of meno and all the stuff going on) was training myself to respond to hypnosis recordings. Totally saved me and got me to sleep, and back to sleep when I woke up (because peeing like a racehorse of course, bless the beloved meno).
good luck!

I listen to nothing much happens too - I saw it recommended on here and it really is good.

I also like The Sleeping Forecast and the Sleepscapes (especially the frozen/icy ones) on BBC sounds

Are you me? Could have written this myself!

If the “I do need to worry about this but it can wait until tomorrow” doesn’t work then I sort of meditate: count my breathing. If my mind starts to wander I start again at 1.