Obstetric violence - legs forced open against my will

[NibliaBiblia]

When I was in labour with my daughter, the midwives spent twenty minutes trying to force my legs open to get me flat on my back with my legs up. There was no emergency. It was so they could get a better CTG reading. I physically resisted for as long as I could and verbally told them to stop. They didn't stop until I gave up. After that they did other things without my consent, but I did not they to stop them again.
I complained to the hospital and they have done nothing. I complained to the police and they told me there must have been an emergency. I've complained to the NMC and the CQC. I hope they will do something but it's a long process so I won't know for a long time.
The police used to say that domestic violence was a private matter. They used to say that if you got in the car/went into the apartment/were drinking then you must have agreed to it. I think this is exactly the same type of justification, applied to equally criminal behaviour.
I don't think my experience is abnormal. I think this is fairly routine. They thought that when I gave up that meant I consented.

Have you completed a subject access request to look over your notes? Did you go through PALS at the hospital? Did you have a birth partner with you whilst this was happening?

I'm so sorry for your experience, I had similar in that I was coerced and threatened into the route they wanted my 1st birth to go down, and then had multiple internal examinations thrust upon me without asking permission. I was so traumatised by my 1st birth that it took me nearly 5 years to screw up the courage to get pregnant again, and I deliberately had a vbac homebirth against the consultants advice because I did not feel safe in hospital. It's recognised as sexual assault in any other situation.
I also had a birth debrief by my consultant who essentially whitewashed everything and I felt even less heard than before.

💐

It doesn't help resolve the injustice but I did find therapy helped. Keep a wary out for PPD because a traumatic birth greatly increases the chances of it unfortunately. I suffered with it for years before realising what it was.

ETA I know full well how painful being forced onto your back during labour can be. Its brutal.

As I understand it a CTG is done when there is a clinical need so why did you not want your baby monitored? If the midwives persisted then it sounds like there was a pressing need to get your baby monitored? However, I’m not suggesting that the way they went about it was appropriate either.

Did you have a birth debriefing and was there a DP or birth partner in the room who may remember what the midwives said about it?

This.

A CTG reading is to make sure baby is not in distress. No she should never force you but a CTG is often so important to make sure baby does not get into distress, which can show signs of tachycardia/ bradycardia or swallowed meconium Etc. It can lead into fatal complications. So the midwife should have been more caring into making you understand why it was important not trying to force your legs apart though!

What were your reasons for not letting them get the reading? What you went through sounds horrific. The midwives do need to balance the needs of you and the baby. They must have been in a difficult position with a mother refusing checks they needed to do for the baby. What are you hoping to achieve from the complaint? If it's better treatment for other women have you included how they could have met the needs of you and the baby better?

Yes, yes, and yes.

YANBU my consultant cut me without my consent so she could show her student a ventous birth. There was no emergency, I was birthing our son. He had not become stuck at any moment she said she wanted to cut me, I said no, she said yes and took a pair of scissors to my vagina.

It does not matter how important it is. What the emergency is. You have a right to not consent at any point and that takes priority.

This is why free birthing is becoming such a thing. Because women aren't safe with the very people meant to look after you.

Did your notes record a reason for the cut? If not then you have an excellent case for medical negligence. The clinical reasoning for an episiotomy and use of ventouse should be clearly documented.

It sounds like a horrible experience but are you able to explain more around why you were resisting when it was clinically needed?

@Justanopinionnothingmore
where is your evidence for this "so important" statement?

It does not matter how important it is. What the emergency is. You have a right to not consent at any point and that takes priority

well exactly

Honestly I was happy for them to do the CTG, I just wasn't willing to lie flat on my back for it because it hurt and I'd been told over and over again in antenatal appointments that it's generally helpful to move into whatever position feels right to you.
It's not about balancing my interests Ruth the baby's though, it's about not assaulting me. Obviously I want what's best for my baby.

I'm so sorry

It wasn't needed. I agreed to the CTG, I just want willing to be in that position. It was horrible.

I'm so sorry. There's a recent legal case in Australia where the mother successful sued for this. Gawthorp v Bendigo

I agreed to the monitoring, just not being forced onto my back. Like I said, no emergency documented, or asserted by anyone connected with the hospital at anytime since.
Yes to birth debrief. Husband remembers the same as me. I've complained formally and had several phone calls etc. if there was a clinical reason I expect they would have offered it by now.

@NibliaBiblia

Have you spoken to a solicitor about your concerns, OP?

Yes but there's no financial injury. It hasn't affected my ability to work or anything, it's just wrong.
That's why I went to the police. If someone forces my legs open, that's assault. If it's for a long time, when I'm in a vulnerable situation, when I'm naked from the waist down, and it doesn't stop until I'm so exhausted I give up, that is a serious crime.
Just like sexual assault and domestic violence, this is wrong whether or not I can demonstrate that it's materially affected me.

I was just going to ask this

Just want to say I’m so sorry that happened to you OP.

Does your hospital trust offer a birth debrief with a consultant midwife? I wonder if speaking to someone face to face to go through your experience and talk through what has been documented in your notes would be worthwhile?

@Mumtotornadoes

so if your baby dies, has oxygen deprivation, you die even, nobody will turn accuse of the medical staff of negligence for not monitoring, carrying out a procedure etc? If you think this is far fetched it’s not, my friend was accused of negligence following a baby born with brain damage yet the parents refused monitoring, exams, refused a c section and only when the very stern head of midwifery plus ob consultant came in together did they consent to an exam at which point an emergency ventose delivery was performed but was too late for the baby, damage done. Monitoring is for a reason, their aim is healthy mother, healthy baby and not some fictitious, amazing earth mother delivery

I am so sorry you experienced this and then to have your experience minimised further. I hope you can recover fully and lessons are learned about consent by the team.

Im so sorry OP you must feel totally violated. How awful.
I was in hospital recently for something else and loads of tests and my consent wasn't asked once not for cannula insertion, scans or anything. I work in the NHS and I said why hadnt anyone asked my consent for these procedures and just got blank looks all round.
WTF is going on these days?

Was she convicted? Did she lose her licence? No. They checked she had done everything right. So I hope she did. By explaining the procedures, explaining the risks of the procedure and the risk of not having the procedure.

You cannot perform medical procedures on a person that they expressly refuse. The patient has every right to refuse monitoring and exams. Every right. Being a doctor does not give you the right to cut someone without their permission or put your hand in their vagina. It does not matter if you think you know better. It is not your body.

That's why informed consent is so important. They're supposed to explain the procedure, why they recommend it, what the risks are, what the risks of not having it are.

My point is, that the fact that many many many medical professionals treat women as though they aren't human beings and do procedures without their consent, lie about is happening and make women feel unsafe. It is CAUSING women to refuse medical treatment which then does put some women and babies in danger.

If women were treated with respect they would trust doctors more. You don't get to abuse someone and then complain they don't trust you.

FWIW I agree with you @NibliaBiblia . Women should be in charge of their own labour and medical staff should be fully prepared to let women experience riskier labours if that's what they choose. Just offering examinations/interventions and recordings response should be enough to indemnify against prosecution- none of this cajoling, encouraging, harassing, let alone insisting or ignoring. People should be free to act against medical advice, whether that's as a result of careful research or random panic.