Obstetric violence - legs forced open against my will

[NibliaBiblia]

When I was in labour with my daughter, the midwives spent twenty minutes trying to force my legs open to get me flat on my back with my legs up. There was no emergency. It was so they could get a better CTG reading. I physically resisted for as long as I could and verbally told them to stop. They didn't stop until I gave up. After that they did other things without my consent, but I did not they to stop them again.
I complained to the hospital and they have done nothing. I complained to the police and they told me there must have been an emergency. I've complained to the NMC and the CQC. I hope they will do something but it's a long process so I won't know for a long time.
The police used to say that domestic violence was a private matter. They used to say that if you got in the car/went into the apartment/were drinking then you must have agreed to it. I think this is exactly the same type of justification, applied to equally criminal behaviour.
I don't think my experience is abnormal. I think this is fairly routine. They thought that when I gave up that meant I consented.

I was going to mention this case. Glad you’re aware of it. Have you contacted BirthRights?

There is a massive difference between a medical emergency and doing a procedure in a different way the patient didn't consent to for the convivence of the staff.

I have previously been tempted to hand medical professionals a note saying something along the lines of: by reading this you are consenting to being personally sued for medical battery and or assault if you perform a medical procedure or touch me without my consent. Then take a picture of them holding the note and write down their name. I doubt it's particularly legally sound, but it may cause the medical professionals to treat you like an actual human being not a slab of meat.

I agree. If the midwife tells me to open my legs, I'm opening my legs.

Yes all the literature tells us not to birth on our backs, to move around etc and in a perfect labour that's what we would do, but if a curve ball comes up and the best way to monitor the baby is on your back then surely that's what you do.

And if the medical professional is trying to do something that will save you or your baby's life? Or are you not bothered if your baby dies, as long as you don't have to lie on your back if you don't feel like it

So were happy to have one, but only in certain positions, not others?

Did they explain: <this was CTG is for, we may need to move you around temporarily etc>

And then when they tried to move you onto your back - did they explain why? When they tried to open your legs did you ask them why?

I think they were doing it because they didn't really see me as a person. They had the heartbeat, there was just loss of contact. They didn't say anything or document anything about concerns with the heartbeat.
As i said, no one from the hospital has ever tried to justify it in any way.

Yes. They are amazing.

Medical professionals saw a clinical necessity to monitor and examine you and you sought to place your comfort over the wellbeing of your baby.

To use the cardiology example, if there was a clinical urgency for an ECG would you refuse to take your top off because you were cold? It’s absurd that you wouldn’t just crack on and be monitored for the safety of you and your baby. You knew labour wasn’t going to be rainbows and lollipops so why were you surprised that it hurt on your back? Why bother going to hospital if you were going to dispute the clinicians’ judgement and get mardy when it hurt?

Midwives and obstetricians often have to make in the moment decisions about keeping two people alive and then be able to defend them afterwards. They forced an awkward mum into having a procedure she didn’t like and mum and baby survived. The alternative was that you got your way and one or both of you didn’t make it.
Enjoy your baby.

For what its worth, a CTG is difficult when you are upright/sat, it is much more reliable and secure whey lay on your back. I have 2 babies, 2 inductions where I needed lots of CTG monitoring and this was explained to me as although it was very uncomfortable for me on my back it was the best position for getting a good sound reading on baby. I can’t understand why you needed your legs open for a CTG though?

Why did your legs need to be open for a CTG? There wasn’t a single moment in my labour I was told to be lying flat or with my legs up for monitoring and I was on monitors pretty much non-stop for a couple of days and nights. Side lying or semi reclined was fine. Can anyone actually provide a medical explanation for why that specific position would ever be medically necessary rather than just having a go and saying Op was rejecting an assessment when she clearly wasn’t? It’s absolutely disgraceful that you went through that Op.

I’m a midwife and I disagree with this. We should never do anything against someone’s wishes. Women have bodily autonomy and the right to make decisions which aren’t in their best interests or the unborn baby’s best interests. Informed choice.

obviously in an ideal world an acceptable solution is found which doesn’t endanger anyone. Such as trying different positions or an fetal scalp electrode to pick up fh

But if there is loss of contact, they need to sort it out. The baby's heartrate might be dropping in those none contact periods, and the dropping heartrate might signal that baby is struggling and about to die, and needs a c-section in the next 5 minutes.

There job, first and foremost, is to keep eveyone alive and well. Seeing you as a person, e.g. pandering to your whims, is secondary.

No one from the hospital has attempted to justify this in any way at all. I've spoken to several. They either apologise or pretend it didn't happen. Sometimes both.

If the interests of the care provider and the interests of the patient are colliding, that's a bad situation. In the case of childbirth, the mother should have the final say on what is and is not done to her, but then should also accept responsibility for any negative outcomes. Medical staff fear being sued if they don't intervene and sued if they do. We should be working towards a practice of obstetrics where the interests of both care-giver and care-receiver align.

Ultimately a woman can decline monitoring and the staff need to make sure the woman is aware that safety of the baby cannot be monitored and what the possible consequences of this are. And that conversation needs documenting.

I am sending you a huge virtual hug OP. Something similar happened to me when I was having my (only) child. 22 years ago and I am still angry. Much love x

Absolutely not. Why would you think that?
It's entirely possible to have dignity giving birth and women absolutely deserve respect.

Women also have the right to decline medical treatment, regardless of how sensible it is.

It's not essential to be on your back for CTG monitoring (I had it and I was on my front). CTG monitoring doesn't stop the baby going into distress - it's only monitoring - and the evidence for it detecting a baby going into distress is not clear cut.

In my experience of giving birth - there's a lot to be said for listening to your own inner instinct in labour. And for health professionals to listen to that.

OP - I'm with you.

How would you feel now, if the midwives hadn't examined you on your back and forced your legs apart, and your baby had died?

This wasn't a split second decision. They spent twenty minutes attempting to force my legs open. They had time to stop and think.
If it was an emergency why weren't they prepping me for surgery? Why didn't they call a doctor or anesthetist? Why didn't they tell me it was an emergency? Why didn't they document that it was an emergency?

What would be your ideal outcome here?

A lot of people seem to think maternity services are particularly bad - they aren't.

All hospital departments are that bad, most people are blessed with health and thus don't experience medical negligence on an intuitional scale.

Medical professionals are humans too, thus are susceptible to human error, gaps in knowledge, and biases.

I am sorry that happened OP that sounds awful.

I went through similar, given no choice but to be on my back because the midwife needed to monitor my baby.

I couldn’t manage my pain at all, it was excruciating in that prone position and when I mentioned this, was told we need to monitor the baby. I just wanted to know if there was a way of doing both, my pain being managed and the baby being monitored but apparently not.

What were you saying during these 20 minutes? Why didn't you want to be examined? What did you think would happen if you weren't examined?

For the police to investigate.