Blood sugar diet and Fast800 thread 15

[thenewaveragebear1983]

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Some useful links:

Previous thread

Blood Sugar Diet and Fast800 thread 14 http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/fasting_diet/3532374-blood-sugar-diet-and-fast800-thread-14

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

Thanks wager, I think that’s what I’ve been toying with do I just go med watch kcal, or low carb or carbs from veggies - as you can see I’m not letting go of carbs easily.

I think you’re doing really well premenstrually I’ve been known to demolish loaves! Seriously, I’m also premenstrual so can sympathise. Just think having the variety of foods should be adding to your total nutrition an challenging your metabolism. I find my period goes all over the place when I exercise more.

By the way thought of you today did my 5 k. Felt amazing.

Keep hanging on in there x

“Waver” sorry... even when I tried to shorten your name I got it wrong!

Well, I am chuffed to bits with my new scales! Thank you @PhoenixMama for recommending them. They measure things I didn't even know I wanted recording 😆

At the moment, they are on the wooden floor in the kitchen which isn't ideal; they can't stay there. But I don't think the Lino in the bathroom is hard enough. Will experiment.

I am still muddling through trying to find what would work for me. The keto wee sticks I got from eBay were a good buy, but I am baffled on how I can't be losing weight when actually in keto 😩

I am keeping experimenting. I'll find a way through this. Today, I am staying very low carb as a counteract to yesterday.

DH is playing cricket this evening so I am not sure if I will make it to a gym class. I may just head off somewhere with the dog instead for a good walk.

Hope everyone else is having a good morning.

PS I am going to try cooking with spaghetti squash this week. I ordered one in my veg box. Apparently the consistency when cooking is very similar to pasta. Will report back.

Thanks for app recommendation Bear, have downloaded. Good day yesterday as in stuck to principles, went over in calories as we had a big wild salmon to finish. Not missing wine so far.

Today is boiled egg for lunch, chicken, broccoli, roast courgettes for dinner possibly with small portion of lentils if I feel I need them. I think my appetite is decreasing. DH is eating med style and no booze but not counting calories. He has lost 3 lbs in 2 days! I know I haven’t, might weigh on Friday morning.

I would like to get going on cross trainer but too embarrassed with workmen wandering past the window.

Riddle Dh and I quite liked it although I stopped using it after it became apparent that I was never drinking more than 14 units a week, it seemed a bit pointless. If you can find it on catch up or Netflix, that Adrian chiles documentary was actually really interesting too; he was basically a fairly heavy social drinker, never drunk, but often drinking more than the units and it clearly struck a chord with Dh as he instantly downloaded the app!

My period has finally arrived, 10 days late, so that's a relief. Hopefully that will calm down my grazing and also my terrible mood! Have a big afternoon/evening/overnight reunion with my uni friends tomorrow though so that will he a write off, plus on Saturday a big family do- so it might not be a proper start for me until Sunday or Monday despite my promises to start this week!

Meals today have been good; a fry up for lunch and a chicken stir fry for dinner but I did Also have some bread and a couple of biccies (damn rich teas, I only bought them for the dc thinking they weren't even going to tempt me as they are so dull!)

Hello, I’ve just finished the first two weeks of Fast800/Keto.

I feel like I haven’t lost a significant amount.

I’m not weighing but going by clothes getting looser.

But want to drop 2-3 dress sizes.

MFP says my carbs/fat/protein intake are on track.

On a couple of days I was over protein.

Admittedly today, I was over by 200 calories and protein (huge block of Marmite cheese!)

Where am I going wrong, or am I just impatient/unrealistic?!

Keto hi! If you haven't weighed, you don't know if it's worked or not- do you have access to scales? It's probably worth at least occasional weighing if you do. It's impossible to gauge it otherwise.
In terms of your diet, if you're sticking to 800 cals and keeping the carbs low then it should be working, but for some it can be a slow start. If you're aiming for keto, you need to max out the fat and keep the carbs low and the protein moderate (my app says 23g carbs, 80g protein and 160g fat but that's for a calorie count of 1500 or so) but it's worth mentioning that fast800 isn't technically a keto plan so if you're following the menu in the book you probably won't get into ketosis. 200 calories over today is not terrible, (although marmite cheese sounds like the work of the devil....!) The 'real' keto dieters don't calorie count at all do they? That sounds like a step too far for me!

You say you've done 2 weeks? How did you find it? What are you going to do now- continue or modify to a 5:2 or other strategy?

Really enjoying all the inspirational stories. (@PhoenixMama awesome 👏)
I started in April at 12st and am now 9st 11ish... I’ve had a holiday in between and was fairly good but returned to perfection when I got home. I have good days and bad days but remind myself that a current ‘bad day’ is probably 1/3rd of what I regularly consumed every day previously! I do crave carbs regularly and try to resist.

Things that get me through the tough times:

• Mushrooms! Drizzled with olive oil and salt (baked) for a filling, low cal and carb option
• M&S courgetti spaghetti with chicken ready meal
• Rawlings retreat low alcohol fizz in a Prosecco glass (no carbs and around 80 calories for 750ml)! Helps to replace wine for me.
• my guilty pleasure is earl grey with milk every day - I just need to wean myself off it!

I do feel I’ve got to a point where I’m see-sawing 9.10.5 - 9.13 - I’d like to lose another 7lb.

I’ve done v little exercise so not toned at all. Old clothes fit much better. I’m disappointed that 2stone doesn’t look massively different in my before and after though!!

My tipple

That looks great @goreousgirl! I'll look that low alcohol fizz up!

I braved the scales today & I'm up 4 lbs but more than that the biggest difference is how bloated & grumpy I am back on carbs. No thanks! My goal is to get back on track on Tuesday as we should have a working oven by then & we have a few things coming up over the next few days where I know I'll be (way) over. Can't wait to be back on it and actually can't believe I used to feel this way all the time!

Thanks so much thenewaveragebear1983!

I have previous for obsessing with scales. Also, I’m one of those people for whom BMI doesn’t tally.

Eg when my Dad died I lost a lot of weight, size 4, to the extent work people were v worried, but even then I was mid range BMI and therefore a “healthy weight.

I was hoping to measure by dress size instead.

I could go to Boots and weigh there I guess.

From what I’ve read about Keto, the not worrying about calories is a myth and CICO still applies.

So I thought I’d try and mix Keto with Fast 800 for results.

I switched MFP settings to 75% fat, 5% carbs and 20% protein with which I’ve been pretty consistent.

I’m not struggling with the diet as such but was confused as to why I’m not really seeing results.

I’ll keep going as I am for the moment and review in another couple of weeks maybe, or until meat/eggs/cream/avos/ cream/coffee become onerous!

And yes, Marmite cheese, especially when melted, is indeed the devil’s work!

Keto that's a bit like me, I swear I have heavy bones because I'm a size 8 but I still weigh over 10 stone, sometimes 10.5. Other people my height and size are 9/9.5. (I know this from extensive reading of mumsnet 'what's your weight height and size?' Threads!!! Real scientific data, obvs) I'm addicted to my scales though. I could never trust myself to trust the diet!! Although if you are wanting to know if you've lost weight, an occasional (monthly?) hop on the scales is the only way really to tell, especially as sizes are ridiculously varied from shop to shop.

I think the keto 'no counting calories' thing only really works if you get fully fat adapted and don't eat unless you're hungry, which is great if you can do that but I am a chronic emotional eater. So while I can be very very controlled when I'm in the zone, take my eye off the ball and I can eat way more that I need and far more than I can burn off. I need to track!

Agree with Bear re heavy/light bones and fat muscle. I am 5 ft 5 and a bit, to fit in size 8/10 clothes I have to weigh under 9 stone. At 10 stone I am a size 12/14. I am soft and wobbly as I rarely exercise. I have a pair of non stretchy trousers with proper waistband which are my trousers of truth. If they slide down to my hips I am in the zone, if I struggle to do up the two buttons I need to take action.

@Riddleofthesands and @thenewaveragebear1983 you need @PhoenixMama 's scales!!! They weigh your bone mass as well as body fat and visceral fat.

I am super impressed with mine.

I made avocado soup for lunch. The teen was more impressed than she had been with the courgetti spaghetti last night which not only her, but none of the children would touch 🙄

Chicken drumsticks tonight I think, if I make it to the supermarket soon so I can marinate them.

Those threads are so interesting.

I’m 5’3”, small frame, an hourglass.
I’m a size 8-10 at 9stone, a size 14 at 11stone.

At the moment I’m size 10-12 so I’m guessing around 10stone.

I’m happiest at a true size 8 so really want to get back there so I keep on trying on those size clothes as a guide.

I’ll think about a monthly weigh in though.

Grey I have considered some all singing, all dancing scales - but I think for me it might be just another thing (or host of things) to be vigilant about. I'd love to be able to do the 'trousers of truth' thing because deep down I know that a pound or two either way is ok, and also that even in the course of a day it can fluctuate that much- but I'm all about the numbers. It's a throwback from my teen years I'm sure but I am a scales/numbers junkie! I only ever weigh once a day, sometimes not every day now, but usually weighing regularly and being on plan go hand in hand for me- and when I have periods of time where I'm not weighing it's usually in correlation with my going off piste. If I was able to calculate my muscle/fat/ water/bone - good grief, I'd never be off them.

A psychologist would have a god damned field day with me. I have a very dear friend who is slim and beautiful (and as much of a screw up as I am) and we run together- she's one of the few people I can confess all this crap to!

keto I think a dress size very roughly correlates with about a stone, so if you're hoping for 2-3 dress sizes then 2 weeks in might be a bit early for those kinds of results. Have a weigh or use a tape measure, rather than clothes if possible.

I've mixed things up today! I've been doing 4 slimfasts but have been hungry sometimes (not that I'm surprised or complaining, I'm just trying to think of easy non-cook, non-prep solutions). I've come up with fridge raiders chicken! A 90g pack is 199 Cals - all the convenience of a slimfast and I get to eat some actual food! I wonder if I should swap 2 slimfasts, so have 2 slimfast and 2 packs of chicken a day? That'd take me down to about 50g of carbs a day. Will that help by inducing ketosis? Or making ketosis more constant?

I think I have been in and out of ketosis this last week just with the slimfast. I can smell the change in my breath and body odour (not a good thing, but worth it in the long run)!

So far, after the initial water weight drop, I'm losing at a rate of 3.5lb a week, or 1lb every 2 days. I'm quite pleased with that, if it keeps going, but I'm desperate to lose as fast as possible.

Newaveragebear - your friend is probably on mn somewhere saying she runs with a sporty, beautiful friend too! How much do you run?

Don’t worry Babies, I had no expectation of loosing three dress sizes in two weeks!

Just hoping for a looser waistband by now.

I’ll keep trucking on and hopefully by the end of August will feel more comfortable in my own skin, and clothes...

Wow nearly at the end of 2 weeks 800 fast
Aside from massive cock up last weekend I've been good and lost 3kg

But I have a few questions??

Can I never have bread or pasta? We eat out at least once a week and that's pretty restrictive

Can I never eat a biscuit?? Or crisps??

Also what do you all eat for breakfast on non fast days? No cereal, no bread and I'm buggered if I'm dipping asaparagus into a dippy egg

So @MozzchopsThirty until the last 2 weeks I think I had had pasta twice and it was because other people made it for me. I'd had bread a couple of times but I found that whenever I ate it I wanted more and was far hungrier than when I went without.

If you're doing 5:2 you can probably relax more but on Fast800 is avoid as much as physically possible.

Can't help you on breakfast because I just never eat it anymore. I try not to eat until noon and then just have lunch & dinner!

GreyBasket I am not ready to read my body fat scores, not brave enough yet anyway.

MozzchopsThirty that’s a really good loss, well done. Re breakfast I love asparagus and eggs so I am no help there! I also have two meals not three so I guess it’s lunch really. Sometimes I have tinned pilchards or a piece of smoked mackerel, or pan fried mushrooms and tomatoes. Personally if I have potatoes or pasta I start craving carbs for days so it’s not worth it. I do have rye bread (the dark brick sort that keeps for ages) a couple of times a week without any issues. For me age 52 if I want to lose my spare tyre I am pretty sure bread and wine have to go. Also I have no self control with crisps. If I buy crisps I tell the kids to hide them as otherwise I will eat the lot.

Back playing up again today, fed everyone and lying flat on my back now until morning. Carpet being laid tomorrow and room not quite emptied, need to get better. Teenager is a sweetie and will do it if I’m not.

I smell babies I currently run about 40km a week. To answer your keto question, to achieve ketosis you really need to get the carbs down as low as possible, possibly sub 25g, plus watch your protein intake because surplus protein will change to glucose and prevent you entering ketosis (this amount will vary based on your body weight, and your requirements due to exercise etc)

@Riddleofthesands I have managed without breakfast for 2 weeks but think I'd like to maybe have a breakfast at the weekend
When I'm in work I can go without

What about porridge?? Is that allowed on non fast days
I'll try rye bread for W one off

I've definitely noticed I'm slimmer round the middle which is where I carry my fat

Can I ask what you eat when out then?
Just meat/fish and veggies?

MozzchopsThirty I carry most of my fat on my middle too. On Sundays we have full English, I just skip the toast. I don’t eat out that much. On holiday I usually relax all rules. If I am having a proper 800 week and eating out I ignore the bread basket and typically order fish and veg or steak and veg. I don’t have a sweet tooth. My downfall is crisps, cheese and wine. If I don’t have wine I do a lot better at resisting the crisps and cheese.