Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
BigChocFrenzy · 23/11/2018 23:12

Well done, 43 Under 600 is a good FD
and early nights seem a good idea, FDs and NFDs, if your OH habitually snacks at night

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/11/2018 08:32

He really is a snacker bcf... grrrrr

Okay so since my whoosh of 4lbs a good few weeks back now my weight has practically stood still, ive had 2 fantastic weeks but weigh in today puts me at 1lb heavier than my lightest after that whoosh, so I'm now 11 12 and have lost 30lbs in total but it feels like I'm stuck again.

I'm feeling slightly anxious and disheartened that from now until Xmas I have such a hectic busy time planned (with meals out and nights out) that I'm probably not going to loose anything else Sad I will carry on with mfping everyday and hope that something shifts soon. On the plus side the last 2 tops I've bought are a 12 rather than a 14 Grin and loads of clothes are feeling bigger / looser on me, it's just not showing on the scales! Argh.....

Rant over... as you were Grin good luck sat fasters

quackingduck222 · 24/11/2018 10:34

Agree with BCF about keeping busy on a FD but also doing something for yourself. I used to be very much I’m not worthy until I loose weight but anything to give you a boost and to keep your mind occupied.

43 - same here with the squash, I can’t do plain water but found my taste buds have changed and I like it weak now. I think anything to get you drinking is a bonus.
Me too fleecy pjs and fleecy blanket.
Hope your FD went well.

Moes- Fantastic SV. Well done. Hope you have a lovely time.

Borris - That’s the spirit, you can always claw it back. I do this most weeks.

Cheddar- That’s a fantastic NSV on your running, I do the 30/30 and it’s great really breaks up the boredom of it.

Well done on your mini Bug.

BCF - Great job, you make it all sound so effortless. What’s the weather doing where you are?

43 - Honestly stick with it, carry on with your FDs. Now your in the swing you will probably find when your out your more mindful. Also your stomach has most likely shrunk and you will probably find it’s impossible to consume what you used too.
Your loosing inches if your clothes size is going down. And 5:2 is excellent on inch loss. Look at how far you’ve come 30lbs off is absolutely amazing. But also how many inches you’ve lost in that time.

I think I’m going to do a mini today, I still struggle mentally not doing the 2nd FD on a Saturday as it’s been embedded in my mind for so long now.

Is anyone fasting today? If so good luck Saturday fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/11/2018 16:06

43 Sounds like you are losing fat

However, if your SV was a few weeks ago, then I recommend a week on mfp
as you are probably eating back the FD deficit

Many 5:2ers who had stopped losing have found mfp a revelation / reality check
it clarifies where the extra calories are coming from

duck After being in shorts and T only 5 weeks ago, it has been near freezing the last couple of weeks ❄️

Good luck on your mini
and do let us know how the sewing goes

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/11/2018 19:32

I have been mfping bcf Confused That's what I mean I've been within tdee and done my fds....

Will just carry on and hope for another whoosh soon.

How has your mini gone quacking?

quackingduck222 · 24/11/2018 20:57

BCF - Gosh how your weather has changed so quickly.

Sewing, well almost failed at the first hurdle of threading the bloody machine. 3 YouTube tutorials and a hour later I got there. Blush pattern making tomorrow and practice run.

I’m slightly over my mini due to dodgy maths. MFP logged me out and I can’t remember my details as I originally signed up in 2009. Had to make a new account after tea.

43 - I wonder if you’ve hit a bit of a plateau. It’s hard but try and stick with it.

HLBug · 24/11/2018 21:13

Evening all, I've ended up doing another Mini today - closing on about 900 calories. DD slept until 9.15am this morning (!!!!!) so by the time we'd had breakfast I wasn't hungry for lunch. So a brekkie and dinner day for me. Hoping that will help mitigate some of the Christmas social ridiculousness that is already beginning Confused

43 don't despair - I remember staying at 11st exactly for weeks and weeks and weeks. It was like some kind of cruel joke. Then one day whoosh. Then a couple of weeks later, another whoosh. So maybe you're just in between whooshes. Keep strong - you're doing everything right so the scales will have to drop eventually.

Borris · 24/11/2018 22:34

43 - great to be buying clothes a size down. I guess it’s what we look like rather than the number on the scale that matters ... but it’s nice to have it validated on the scales. Have you recalculated your tdee for 30 lb lighter? Just trying to think of reasons for staying the same? Otherwise maybe you need to stick at it and then hopefully you’ll suddenly start to drop again.

Quacking I’m impressed with the sewing. What are you making? And what did we do pre YouTube!!! I’ve just YouTubed tuning a ukulele- dds Christmas present Grin

Bug - lovely lie in, and great to get a mini in.

Bcf sounds like your good weather has finally run out! Do you get snowy winters where you are?

Today’s nfd has been much more controlled. I knew people were planning bacon sandwiches at work
So I skipped breakfast and had a bacon and egg sandwich (resisted the sausage !!!). Had a busy day at work and the sandwich kept me full all day. No snacking and had some soup for tea as still not that hungry.

Need a good one tomorrow too. Though totm so may not see much action scale wise.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/11/2018 23:45

Yup, Borris, Duck We get bad snowstorms some winters

Well done, bug

43 Then just chill & it will happen

People see your shape, not what's on the scales
So, others can see the difference, smaller clothes too

I remember bug sts for ages until her whooshes started 🙂
Several others like this, too

You may be another whoosher, rather than one who loses linearly most weeks.

The theory is that you have burned bodyfat, but your body wants to hang onto its weight - homeostasis -
so the empty fat cells fill with water
Once your body has finished rebalancing, it becomes ready to lose weight again, so releases water from the fat cells, in a whoosh.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 25/11/2018 15:55

I'm fasting today, probably tomorrow too, with a b2b miniFD
Anyone else today ?

Just veg soup and raw carrot & seed grain-free crackers so far
I've had a long jog outside in the gloomy weather,
dry at least, before the forecast monsoon all next week

I've got a big Christmas multi-course event on Wednesday - our divisional evening do - but in November ? 🤔
Doesn't seem right, tbh

I've organised our group Xmas night out for the following Tuesday, the day everyone preferred - still early, imo, but at least it's December

I'm a traditionalist and I don't want any celebrations, cards or decorations before 6 December

OP posts:
Borris · 25/11/2018 18:22

I’m b2b ing tomorrow and Tuesday bcf.

I’m nearly as traditional as you. No cards/trees/decs until December... but our tree is going up 1dec as it happens to be a Saturday. Works do for me not until 15th Dec so that’s definitely ok with me. I once went to one on 23rd Dec and tbh that was too close to Christmas. All I could think was of all the stuff I still had left to do at home!!

harriethoyle · 25/11/2018 18:54

I agree @bigchoc my tree doesn't usually go up til 15th although I'm away that weekend this year so I think I'll do it on 8th so it's up for a little while before Christmas. Also, my work in December is horrific, so so busy and stressful so I'll take all the cheer I can get..!

I'm fasting tomorrow for sure and contemplating a b2b on Tuesday... I'll keep you all posted for accountability! Excellent weekend fasting from a lot of you, well done.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/11/2018 22:18

The actual period of Christmas has expanded ridiculously

It was bad enough with all the Christmas offers from October, but now the parties are starting in November, there are of course more of them
< grumpy old bag >

FD1 finished now
I'll join you both in fasting tomorrow 🙂

OP posts:
cakegoblin · 26/11/2018 00:29

Hi everyone, will catch up with the thread properly tomorrow but need to check in now for my Mon and Tues B2B after an absolutely fabulous holiday. It has been a good idea to give myself a few days after returning so I have got over the blues and settled in at home. Not much gain on scales but I feel really fat and bloated so looking forward to my FDs this week. Anyone got any low cal cup soup recommendations? Sick of miso!

Notreallyhappy · 26/11/2018 06:58

Morning cake depending on if you want to cook..base of carrot onion & celery either tinned tomatoes stock & some puree, stock cook through add herbs & blitz or cauli & broccoli base mix cook & blitz. Splash of milk makes them more satisfying.
Fd today b2b with a mini for tomorrow then another later in the week
Have a good one all x

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/11/2018 09:24

morning everyone and I hope I get another whoosh soon bcf Smile
although I must confess I went slightly (only very slightly) off the rails this weekend after my disappointment on the scales, which will probably mean disappointment on the scales this weekend! gah!!! NFD today, probably fasting tues and thurs this week as I'm out on friday. Good luck monday fasters Smile

thanks for the encouragement bug quacking and borris and yes I have been recalculating TDEE every half stone, I was quite surprised actually by how little it goes down each time

Oh bcf yes, its is all sorts of wrong to have a xmas do in Nov, I am very traditional too and tree goes up a week before xmas, I've planned our xmas meal at work for the 20th Grin I LOVE xmas but feel strongly that it should only start in Dec although I am being completely hypocritical after snaffling 2 mince pies this weekend

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/11/2018 09:25

ooh welcome back cake that bloated feeling will soon be gone after a couple of good FDs Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 26/11/2018 11:37

goblin I have a delic ready-made soup, that is very low cal.
The ingredients list says cucumber, spinach & zucchini

I've eaten a similar soup in a restaurant and it was lovely there, too

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 26/11/2018 11:40

Don't worry, 43 If you can stay focused this week,
with good FDs and NFDs, then you will be right back on track and ready to whoosh 🙂

OP posts:
Boysmomma · 26/11/2018 12:51

Morning all, FD set for Wed and Thursday this week Grin I had a brilliant (and a VERY bold) weekend. On the plus side I was conscious of my choices (even all the gin) and there was a LOT of walking between places so I'm hoping that helped.

I did overindulge but was happy I didn't go to excess. I felt heavy this morning and sure I'm after putting back on some of what I'd lost but delighted to report a NSV. I fit comfortably, and with room to spare, into a work pants I haven't seen in over a year. I'm thrilled!

Well done on your FD's evryone!

I need to try new things @quacking, cauli mash it is Grin

@MOES well done on your SV!

@43 that's brilliant! I'm doing my best to navigate the xmas season, although if I could do it in a size 12 I'd be thrilled! My DS has been at me since Sep to put the tree up, it's going up this weekend Blush

Good luck for the week everyone!

harriethoyle · 26/11/2018 16:24

How are you getting on @bigchoc @borris and @cake? I am absolutely fecking FREEZING!! Got the heating right up too :-( Currently on 193 after a tuna thin for lunch - fishcake and broccoli for tea tonight.

Question - if I b2b tomorrow but have only stuck to 500 today do I get 650 tomorrow or 800 (cos I add the 150 I saved today)? Ta! X

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/11/2018 16:43

Yes Harriet I did the same thing the other week Grin

Borris · 26/11/2018 16:46

I forgot my fd lunch Sad. But someone at work kindly gave me a mugshot 200cals.
Having spinach and ricotta cannelloni tonight. And then a yoghurt.

Harriet - yes you could have up to 800 tomorrow!

Boys - glad you had a good weekend

43 - fingers crossed your whoosh comes soon.

I’ve been toying with the idea of doing b2b plus another 650 cal per week between now and Christmas to limit Christmas party impacts. What do people think?

harriethoyle · 26/11/2018 18:44

Good. That pleases me Grin

@Borris i start a really horrendous work period from this Sunday through til 14th Dec and will be positively nun-like in terms of my socialising but then making up for it then on! So am also tempted to do 3 fd a week...

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 26/11/2018 19:56

Thanks boys enjoy putting the decs up Smile

Well rescued borris was the mugshot filling? Could you do a mini, so 800-1000 and no junk, be interested to see how that goes...