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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Larasshadow · 22/11/2018 14:57

FD here today. Think I've had far too much black coffee today. Do I have to count calories in sugar free squash?

Need to work out what to make for dinner, either a soup or chicken and veg. Starving now but once the kids are home from school I'll be distracted lol

MrJollyLivesNextDoor · 22/11/2018 18:02

Also checking in on a FD...

Had a small bowl of veg with some made up bovril to make a kind of veg soup with a chopped hard boiled egg in it for lunch..it was very nice!

Have just got home and snaffled 2 ryvita with the tiniest amount of flora light scraped on as frankly I could eat my own arm right now!

Omelette and veg for dinner, can't wait 🙂

Well done fellow fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2018 18:20

Hmm, let's try to keep your tum satisfied on the next NFD, stir

To keep fuller for longer, use wholegrain / wholemeal / rye bread for your sandwich
I love it - More substantial and chewy.
White bread just digests away very quickly and can spike hunger

Also, I have open sandwiches, i.e. 1 slice, because I like the filling !
Crisps are both carby & fatty, but with little nutrition, so I suggest a small green salad on the side - lettuce / spinach, cucumber, peppers - say with vinaigrette dressing

Choc makes you hungry again soon - an apple or pear, with skin, would give fibre and vitamins too for your pud

OP posts:
Stircrazyschoolmum · 22/11/2018 18:31

Nutritionallly sensible advice there BCF Smile

I shall get my soup making hat on and come up with 101 things to do with a butternut squash! Halo

Hang in there fasters.. nearly bedtime! xx

Larasshadow · 22/11/2018 18:39

Currently on 494 calories, made a chicken and veg soup for dinner so have a small portion saved for later to kerb my evening snacking. Might 'treat myself' to a tea with milk this evening lol.

harriethoyle · 22/11/2018 18:46

Kitchen closes at 540 - a tiny bit higher than usual but I can cope...

@stircrazy - roast the butternut squash in two halves in the oven, once cooked scoop out the inside, and fry in a pan with red thai curry paste, add reduced fat coconut milk and thin with chicken stock. Whizz it all with a stick blender. Delicious!

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2018 19:32

Well done, Harriet, Lara

One of my fav restaurants here does the most incredibly delic pumpkin soup with pumpkin oil 😋
I go there for lunch most weekdays, as they also do wonderful grilled salmon strips with salad 😋

OP posts:
visitorthedog · 22/11/2018 19:34

Pumpkin Soup sounds amazing!

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 22/11/2018 21:53

Kitchen closed on 544. I have been so hangry all evening! Cannot wait for breakfast. Blush

quackingduck222 · 23/11/2018 08:12

43 & purple the cold really gets to me to, not just on FDs but all the time. Hot baths, hot drinks and fleece pjs have made a reappearance yesterday my DH commented that it’s a bit early for it but I like feeling like a warm fuzzy bear. Really made a difference.

Visitor - Well done on your B2B, how did you find it?

Moes - Fab NSV if you can see a difference in the scales. I’m on Instagram and follow quite a few 5:2ers, I became quite active for a week or so as my friend was very intriguing by 5:2 and couldn’t comprehend how far 500 calories went so instead of sending the pics to her (I felt that was insensitive) I posted them on there and she never looked so I stopped. Tonnes of them on there tho.

Boys - Well done on your FD. I saw purples post about cauli mash yesterday and rushed out to get a bag as it’s been so long since I had it. Was yummy.

Cheddar - If you have it straight after a meal it doesn’t count as a snack. I quite often do that just not on a FD.

StirCrazy- I agree bread isn’t our friend although I now take BCFs lead and make open sandwich’s half the calories so that’s a bonus.

Well done to all the fasters yesterday you did fantastic.

And good luck to everyone who’s fasting today, wrap up warm.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/11/2018 08:25

Well done on your FD, cheddar

As Duck says, we recommend against snacking between meals,
so as you did, have any treat as part of a meal, either as an accompaniment, like crisps,
or a pud, like choc buttons

Good luck fasters !
Glug hot Beef Bovril (10 cals a cube or level teasp) to keep you warm

Take gloves, scarf and thick coat if you go out
and warm fleecy hoodies are lovely & cosy indoors

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/11/2018 08:28

If you want a treat on FDs like sugary junk or alcohol - NO, have it next FD instead

Have a non-food treat instead:
nails, new nail colour, hair trim, foot massage, listen to new music - and dance in the kitchen, long soak in a hot bath at the end of the day ...

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 23/11/2018 08:39

morning everyone, TFI friday eh?? Grin

I don't count sugar free squash lara I know I am a grown up and I should just drink water but I find it so much easier to glug with some squash in... so far I don't think its hindered weight loss?

Well done to all the thurs fasters Smile

bcf the restaurants that you have locally all sound amazing, I'm very jealous Grin

quacking I agree but my DH thinks I'm mad, I'm sat on the sofa with fleecy jimjams on and a blanket and he's in his shorts!!! weirdo Smile

FD today, anyone else joining me on a Friday?

harriethoyle · 23/11/2018 08:58

I'm the right side of greek yoghurt with honey and granola, and wholemeal toast with butter and marmite so... No!! Grin

Good luck today @fortythree Halo

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 23/11/2018 09:37

mmmm that sounds delicious harriet enjoy Smile

MOES2018 · 23/11/2018 12:02

Good morning everyone

SV this morning - weighed in at 171.6 which is a whole lot better than 177 where I was on Monday. And I got TOTM this morning so I'm telling myself it could have been even better!

So I'm all ready for my weekend away with my cousins. We meet every year around Black Friday and hit the shops like mad women!!! Only problem is we are all foodies and love trying new places for lunch/evening meals so I will have to be careful. I'm not going to drink any alcohol so hopefully that will keep manners on me!

Good luck to anyone fasting today and wishing you all a lovely weekend.

MOES

BigChocFrenzy · 23/11/2018 12:41

Well done on your SV, MOES
especially with totm

Excellent plan not to drink alcohol during your weekend - drink LOTS of water, witth ice & a slice
Also avoid any snacks between meals - have treats only as part of a meal
That helps avoid mindless totm munchies piling back the lost weight

If the weekend meals are really big, you could optionally just have coffee for breakfast, then really enjoy your meals

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 23/11/2018 15:16

Well done moes that's an amazing sv!!!!

Fd going okay, I'd give anything for a glass or 2 of lovely red wine later but I'm consoling myself with the mantra I can have it tomorrow Grin

How's everyone else getting on?

Borris · 23/11/2018 16:19

Keep going 43. Can have that wine tomorrow Wine
MOES that’s a great Sv. Hopefully will motivate you for your weekend away.

I’m on nfd today. A bit annoyed as I’ve mindlessly snacked on some biscuits and toblerone at home. I think I can claw it back. Had planned for a glass of wine and sticky toffee pudding with tea tonight so will forego those. Very irritating tho as I would have enjoyed them far more.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/11/2018 17:39

Keep going, 43

FDs give your bod a very useful break from booze and junk,
which also highlight if you are becoming dependent on either

Borris Snacks are a waste, often regretted:

  • they are often empty calories, without nutritional value, in fact "anti-nutrients" which over time and in excess can worsen health indicators

  • they keep blood sugar raised, increase overall hunger and total daily calories

  • the same food is much more satisfying as an accompaniment to a meal, or as a pud

  • they spoil your appetite for delicious meals

Enjoy lovely meals instead ! 🙂

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 23/11/2018 17:50

Thanks borris and bcf I know all too easily how wine becomes a crutch!! Blush got to drop ds at taekwondo then head to supermarket and then home for soup and chicken... so should be happily distracted for a couple of hours.

Gah borris that is rubbish but just goes to show how easily done it is! Do you'll be joining me in the I can have it tomorrow club Wink

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 23/11/2018 18:13

Borris, snap re biscuits! Blush

Good luck 43 and any other Friday fasters!

Well done, MOES, that’s an amazing SV!

Nfd, somewhat unrestrained attitude to biscuits, but on the positive side, I have just been for my first run practically ever! Went with a friend and we did 30 secs running, 30 secs walking for 40 mins and did nearly 3 miles. I was very slightly up this morning weight-wise, but I was getting dressed and I just look slimmer even if the scales haven’t changed much!

HLBug · 23/11/2018 21:08

Ohhh I'm feeling very Halo today - unexpected Mini closing on 870ish. Whoop.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/11/2018 21:58

Well done on the running intervals, cheddar that's HIIT,
excellent for boosting fitness and also for burning bodyfat, if you don't eat back the calories

Well done on seizing the day, bug
< officially awards 😇 >

I've just finished my planned mini:
B: cocoa with water & a slug of cashew milk
L: my fav restaurant - pumpkin soup, then salmon strips with a big salad, no bread etc

Evening weight-lifting for 1 hr+
and 40 mins v relaxing feet & hand massage, my fav pampered end to the week

No supper, just zero-cal BCCA (Branch Chain Amino Acids) drink after training
Not hungry - a good lunch and evening lifting often works like that for me
Having my meal at lunchtime and cutting out supper boosts the overnight fast.

I'll have a fasted 1 hr lazy jog tomorrow morning, then break my fast.

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 23/11/2018 22:14

Well done bug and bcf
Fd finished here a little higher than I'd hoped but not so bad at around 590.... especially for a Fri

Looking forward to my nfd tomorrow. Not convinced I will have lost this week, feeling very heavy and bloated Sad

Night all, I've taken myself off to bed rather than watch dh supping bourbon and snacking on crisps and choc.

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