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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Borris · 26/11/2018 20:12

Yes a mini extra might be more doable

Borris · 26/11/2018 20:13

I had this for dinner. It was filling, delicious and reduced to 99p.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "
cakegoblin · 26/11/2018 20:38

Thanks forty I have done pretty well today but still feeling bloated around the tummy! Where's my whoosh, that's what I wanna know!

Not I did try cooking soup today with a similar base though it was real chicken stock from a carcass which I find impossible to guesstimate cals for. Will try yours next week, thanks! And BCF that sounds delicious, can't see it online to buy though, is it a German brand?

I had an M&S Count on Us chicken, mushroom, red wine and mash meal (304) for dinner and gave the fam something similar-looking. It was really filling. And then I ate a couple of bits of the kids leftover casserole... you know how it goes. Once they leave home in about 14 years this will be a piece of cake! Came in around 630 and now have a lovely Happy Tea from a local herbal garden to chill out with.

Harriet I used to get really cold when I first started this but it wore off - and even having had a break for a couple of months I'm fine today, cold-wise anyway.

Borris I would be tempted too - Jan 1st weigh in might be less depressing! I might have to play things by ear though rather than plan that in stone because if I don't manage to fit it in I feel like I've failed it and it derails me.

Well done to all you Monday fasters! Who's around tomorrow?

Borris · 26/11/2018 20:42

I’m b2b cake so I’ll be here tomorrow 🙂

harriethoyle · 26/11/2018 20:48

Same @cake and @borris, have finished today on 516. So 784 to play with tomorrow!

BigChocFrenzy · 26/11/2018 21:05

Well done on your work pants NSV, boys
Very encouraging for you

Yes, Harriet After 500 for FD1, you can have 800 for FD2

That was a kind friend, Borris with something that suited, too

Well done on your FD, Borris, goblin, harriet and any other Monday fasters

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 26/11/2018 21:11

Goblin The soup is more like a smoothie, as it's in a jar and recommended to drink cold - but it's called a soup !

Yes, it's German, but so handy & healhy I'm sure something similar must exist in the UK
A 240 ml portion:

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "
OP posts:
cakegoblin · 26/11/2018 21:15

Oooooh, thanks BCF! Research project! I just need quick fixes for FDs and this would be perfecto.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/11/2018 22:04

i get it here, goblin €5.19 for 2 bottles

  • well I get a box of 48 (!) as they are such a handy breakfast on the go for NFDs too However, not very practical when you're not in Germany

www.nu3.de/nabio-bio-soup-to-go-gurke-spinat-id-19532.html

OP posts:
MrJollyLivesNextDoor · 26/11/2018 23:26

BCF - oh my!

I can't imagine having spinach, gherkin and courgette soup for breakfast 😮😂

PopGoesTheWeaz · 26/11/2018 23:47

Normally today is D1 of b2b but I've come down with a cold thingy so I've actually had naught to eat today. I've been asleep for most of the evening so not been hard. Will see how I feel tomorrow but certainly not going to push myself ...

harriethoyle · 27/11/2018 07:19

FD#2... bring it on! Spent some of my extra b2b cals on a slice of peanut butter toast, having woken ravenous at 5.30am! Usual tuna thin in my packed lunch, leaving c. 400 for dinner. Good luck, fellow fasters!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 27/11/2018 07:35

I'm sure your whoosh will come soon cake I'm also fasting with you today Smile

that looks nice borris thanks for the tip...

the soup looks lovely bcf but agree with jolly not sure I could stomach that in the morning....

hope you feel better soon pop that sounds grim, try to have something nourishing today and avoid fasting until 100% back on your feet?

good luck harriet 400 for dinner is not a bad amount at all.

Plan for today, no breakfast just lots of tea and squash; Chicken soup for lunch and an omelette for tea I think

Good luck fellow fasters Grin

quackingduck222 · 27/11/2018 07:38

Good morning everyone.

Well done on your impromptu mini bug.

Borris- At the moment I just trying to get to grips with taking some tops in. I have 20 or so that I couldn’t throw out. Funny enough the last tutorial I used that had clear instructions was clearly recorded from VHS so definitely predates YouTube. It may even be older than me.
⁃ That sounds like a fantastic NFD, good luck for your B2B.

BCF - Gosh those Xmas celebrations are early, but time has ran away with us this year I think. Can’t believe it’s almost December already.

Cake - Glad you had a lovely holiday, that’s a very impressive SV after a holiday. A FD should get rid of your bloating. I don’t have cup a soups but DH went through a stage of having them there are some nice low cal options out there.

NotReally hope your B2B is going well.

43 - I think you will get another one soon. We all loose it differently, maybe your a whoosher. How often do you weigh?

Boys - Sounds like your really in the 5:2 zone now. Being more aware is great, but we do need to let our hair down at times it would be terribly boring otherwise.
Congratulations on your trousers that’s some good inch loss.
Let us know how you get on with the cauli mash, I make mine with a bit of cheese sauce it’s yummy.

Harriet - in your shoes if I’d done 500 the first day I would do 800 the next. Ive done that before and it worked fine. Good luck for today.

Borris - Try it and see if it works for you. I have never lost anything on the 3rd FD, tried quite a few times and no loss at all, yet 2 FD and a mini worked for me. I think we are all different in that respect.

Pop - I hope you feel better soon.

Good luck to everyone fasting today.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 27/11/2018 07:48

I’m fasting today too. There’s cod in the fridge for dinner - not really sure what I’ll —get DH to— do with it. Depends on whether I manage to last out without buying soup for lunch.

Good luck 43 and cake and anyone else fasting today!

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 27/11/2018 07:54

Goal this week: stay inside TDEE. I came in at about 1600 yesterday. I have worked out that I can have 3 square meals plus one indulgence (eg crisps with lunch/couple of biscuits/glass of wine) in my TDEE comfortably, or if one of the meals is a bit lighter then the indulgence can be larger. I’m going to try to stick to 3 meals a day during the week to stay slightly under TDEE and save a little extra for the weekend.

PopGoesTheWeaz · 27/11/2018 08:22

Pyrrhic victory over here. I've been hovering in the 61-62 kg range for weeks and just weighed myself and have finally dipped to 60.8. I'd love to thinkits because I was diligent on nfds cut booze down and upped my running, but I think it's probably just this damn cold. Angry

Anyway, not properly fasting just not sure I have the appetite or energy to eat anything. Will try to make some soup later so my body has some fuel to fight...

PopGoesTheWeaz · 27/11/2018 08:25

Quacking, I do a bit of sewing myself and have managed to take in a skirt or too but mostly have just been dismayed to find things I made last year, like a coat I spent forever on, are now ginormous on me. I'll have to start from scratch with that one.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 27/11/2018 09:50

Pop, yay for 60.8! And having to take in clothes is also a great sign (if irritating!). I am in awe of making a whole coat. I made a dirndl type skirt in the summer and it took me ages, and the only thing I had to fit was the waistband. A jacket would be completely out of my league!

Fleabag123 · 27/11/2018 10:32

Hello troops.

FD today - it was my birthday yesterday but not too indulgent.
I haven’t really planned what to do yet! Black coffee only so far, capitalising on the fact that I don’t really feel hungry at all today (yet!).

Good luck to everyone fasting today

MOES2018 · 27/11/2018 10:43

Good morning everyone
I'm just checking in to say hello on my first FD this week.

I had a fantastic weekend away with my lovely cousins and ate a lot of......'chocolate cake'....I'll just leave it at that!!!!!!!!!!
My aim this week is to just STS as last week....with all the 'chocolate cake' I'm not hoping for a loss even after my two FD's.
Good luck to everyone this week.

MOES

Ebony0 · 27/11/2018 10:46

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2018 11:53

Happy birthday for yesterday, fleabag 💐

To reassure everyone:
"Gurke" is German for "cucumber"
So my soup is cucumber, spinach & zucchine - not quite as strange ! 😏

Good luck, Tuesday fasters !

I hope that nasty cold goes soon, pop 💐
I'd take that SV as being a reward for all those good NFDs and cutting booze too
I tend to temporarily gain a couple of lb during colds, which I susppect may be retained fluids

I noticed after I'd been fasting for a few months that I hardly every get colds now - I used to get absolute snotty stinkers, which went to my throat and became coughs too

Sounds a fab WE, MOES and sts is a good aim after that
You could add a weigh-in tomorrow, so you can see how things are after FD1

OP posts:
Notreallyhappy · 27/11/2018 12:26

B2b going well thank quack day 1 came in at 680 #2 should be less..good planning for day 2 makes it ok.
May add a mini on Thursday

I love scrolling through the thread finding out everyone's nsv etc plus what everyone's eating on FD. Interesting soup/smoothie BCF.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2018 17:37

Well done on your FD, NotReally
I recommend hot beef Bovril (10 cals) in this cold weather
The hot water helps your tum feel full and warms you up
(iirc, the veggy / chicken Bovril versions have odd gunk added & extra cals)

OP posts: