Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

971 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 04/10/2018 23:45

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
BigChocFrenzy · 05/12/2018 23:32

Well done, bug

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 06/12/2018 08:26

That fast day sounds blissful @bug!

Yes @bigchoc I'm doing another mini today rather than a full fast. I get a bit of respite this weekend so am going to aim for a FD on Monday or Tuesday, then see if I can sneak another one in to the back end of next week... on the plus side, I've been in my tdee by miles every nfd cos I don't have time to eat! Wink

I'm going to apologise now for my nhs booze limits breach this weekend. Not even your drones can stop me Grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 06/12/2018 09:05

well done snail and bug - ooh I could just manage a day under the duvet!!!

hope you feel better soon emcla
harriet your work sounds intense, hope you get some respite soon, bcf's adviceabout 3xminis might work better?

Nfd yesterday was fine although I'd had a horrendous day at work and delayed trains and 3 drenchings, so I did end up having 2 glasses of wine, no more until saturday now Grin another nfd today then fd#2 tomorrow

Boysmomma · 06/12/2018 10:01

Morning all! It's been a rough week, DS2 is not sleeping through the last week or so and I'm on my knees with exhaustion, I've not been out much (honestly feel like I'm going to keel over) and I know the lack of fresh air and exercise is only making me feel worse. Anyone free to take him for a few nights? I'll pay P&P Grin

@Stir, I lol'd at your comment, we may well be synchronizing!

@emcla glad it's going well for you

@far that curry sounds lovely!

I honestly don't know where you get your energy from @Big! It's amazing!

hi @kapoww, well done great start!

thanks @quacking, it's nice when the struggle is gone (ish) Hope your meal was lovely!

Great FD @bug

I love the busy days in work @harriet, I honestly think this WOE wouldn't work only for I don't have time to be tempted!

Well done @Not!

@Cake you've got everything ready

@43 well done, draw a line under it!

@Purple, @Too and @visitor you need a blow out every once in a while Grin

I know I've missed people sorry! My own fault for staying away so long. Well done on everyone's FD and SV, this time of year is tough to navigate!

FD today and tomorrow, I'm actually looking forward to it! Good luck Thursday fasters!

emcla · 06/12/2018 10:06

Feel a bit better today but going to do fd tomorrow instead. Thinking of taking a supplement such as berocca. Any thoughts on multivitamins ?

snailhunter · 06/12/2018 10:59

I'm a big advocate of getting all the vits and minerals you need through food, @emcla - apparently a lot of multivitamins just end up not being absorbed by the body because it can only absorb so much, and vanishing down the loo! (Medically prescribed ones not included, of course, like extra iron if you're anaemic). But if it works for you, go for it. I'm also a huge fresh air freak - just getting out and walking always makes me feel better if I don't feel able to run. And it's free!

quackingduck222 · 06/12/2018 11:19

Harriet- Good luck for your FD today, and hope you have a great weekend and that you can let off some steam from your long week working.

Fleabag- what’s up with your scales are they on a flat hard surface? I know weighing on carpet could could that but I would say 5kg on in a week would be impossible. Good luck for your B2B.

43 - I hope your NFD was a good one.
I honestly rarely drink now I think this year I’ve drank in total 5 pints, BCFs words really stuck with me.

BCF- FD went well,

Snail - Good for you with all the training ahead. What half you entering? I would either go or make a phone consultation with the doctor just to be on the safe side. Well done on your FD.

Emcla - I hope you feel better soon, I’d hold off on that fast until your back to normal.

Well done on your fast bug. A mini sounds great if you can squeeze one in before your trip away. Hope you have a amazing time.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/12/2018 11:41

boys The reason for my energy are simple - but not transferrable:
I'm single & childfree, noone to look after, work only pt in a v enjoyable, friendly job - and I live in a serviced appartment on the beautiful Rhine.

You are doing really well:
keep reminding yourself that this is probably the toughest stage of your life, with small DC, but it shall pass.

emcla I agree with snail in recommending food not vitamin tablets.
There is certainly no need just because you are doing a normal FD - I recommend against extreme fasting versions like zero cal FDs

It won't hurt you, but for most folk it's literally pissing away your money.

If you eat reasonably healthy food most days and not too much junk food, especially sugary crap, or booze

  • because those can act as ANTInutrients in your body -
then most people have no need to supplement

I recommend that you try to have plenty of different veggies daily,
with beans, peas, lentils as often as you can, too
and plenty of water all day - cut right back on fizzy crap, including diet fizz

Have fish 2-3 times a week, especially "oily" fish like salmon, because that is very healthy protein.
Eggs are good too.

On NFDs especially, aim for 5-7 portions of different veg, plus 1-2 portions different fruit
On FDs, have lots of veg with moderate protein

Especially important when you feel run down:
organise your time every day for a good night's sleep.

You may need to dial back exercise to just a daily walk outside

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/12/2018 11:42

Good luck, Thursday fasters !

OP posts:
snailhunter · 06/12/2018 12:48

@quacking I'm doing a lovely half up in the Peak District, where my parents live. I love trail running rather than road running and I always try to treat my half marathons as fun days out in the country and an excuse to explore beautiful places. Really looking forward to it.

@boys - I've been there, and it does get easier! My two are nine and 12 now and although the emotional demands are still there (but different) the physical demands of looking after small kids who don't sleep are, thankfully, a distant memory. Be nice to yourself!

Fleabag123 · 06/12/2018 15:40

@emcla - totally agree with all the advice re vitamins. There’s lots of evidence that they are better absorbed from food than from supplements anyway. Hope you’re better soon

So the saga of the scales continues! On a flat wooden surface but clearly they are tricksy. Moved them to the usual place and the extra 5kg has disappeared but....I weigh exactly the same as 3 weeks ago Hmm
However my waist measurement has definitely decreased, wearing a skirt today which is looser.
I shall power through !

Good luck to everyone on FD today

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 06/12/2018 15:56

boys I echo the others, it does get easier, my ds is 7 and is pretty laid back and not much fuss now really, its the commuting and working full time i find exhausting!! I stuck at one for a reason!!!

Nfd going well, managed to resist lots of Xmas treats at work and just had a mini brownie (50 cals) after my lunch Halo hope everyone else is doing well

BigChocFrenzy · 06/12/2018 19:32

Well done on the waist NSV, fleabag
As for the scales, don't try to figure it out 🤯 - were they in last year's Christmas cracker ?

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 06/12/2018 20:05

Kitchen has closed on 898 for my mini. Happy with that!

harriethoyle · 06/12/2018 20:05

@fortythree you beacon of virtue!

BigChocFrenzy · 06/12/2018 20:13

Well done on your mini, Harriet

and on resisting the Xmas office poo crumbs, 43 😇

For those lacking 43's discipline, chant a useful 5:2 mantra:

Shared office "treats" have shared poo crumbs

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/12/2018 20:13

Well done on your mini, Harriet

and on resisting the Xmas office poo crumbs, 43 😇

For those lacking 43's discipline, chant a useful 5:2 mantra:

Shared office "treats" have shared poo crumbs

OP posts:
Farontothemaddingcrowd · 06/12/2018 20:15

The shared poo crumbs is a brilliant mantra!

I'm fasting again tomorrow after a day of indulgence.

Well done on the mini fast day harriet. I love how flexible this way of eating can be.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/12/2018 20:47

Good luck tomorrow, Faron
Post on here to keep avoiding the poo crumbs

OP posts:
emcla · 06/12/2018 21:03

Hi all. Thanks again for all your support. I feel I am over the worst of this cold. I don’t drink alcohol or fizzy drinks. Diet is fairly good overall. Have high cholesterol so try to limit the eggs. Bigchoc you are so incredibly informative. Thanks for always taking the time to reply and share your knowledge.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 06/12/2018 22:07

Yay to the smaller waist nsv flea sod the scales eh Smile

Oh yes, poo crumbs Envy

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 06/12/2018 22:08

Glad to hear you are feeling better emcla

quackingduck222 · 07/12/2018 07:57

Boys - I’m sorry to hear that. I hope it passes quickly for you. Look after yourself.

My meal was quite nice thanks, ate too much. But I didn’t have my tea as I had absolutely no room left, that’s a first for me.

Emcla - I think multivitamins are good. We take a concoction of different ones in this house, just to make sure we’re getting what we need.
The ones that really have made a difference for me is multivitamin with iron before taking those I used to wake up with bad brusing on my legs especially after a FD. Read online about using iron and it stopped almost immediately.

Snail - That sounds lovely, bet you will get some spectacular views from there.

Fleabag- That’s really strange with your scales, definitely loosing inches then. I would get your measurements done ASAP and start going by the tape measure. Or get a new set.

43 - Did your NFD go well? Well done for resisting office treats.

Faron & 43 Good luck for your FD today.

Harriet- Well done on your mini

Good luck to anyone else fasting today.

harriethoyle · 07/12/2018 08:20

Am into the next kilo down! Only by 100g and it won't survive tonight's boozy meal but I'll take it! Grin

harriethoyle · 07/12/2018 08:23

Omfg... just checked my mfp history and I am the lightest I have been since DECEMBER 2015! Wine