Northern Ireland troubles *title edited at OP's request by MNHQ*

[ZNation]

Could someone help me with the troubles in Ireland and why Brexit has provoked this ? What the issue is and are people generally against Brexit in Ireland?
I have tried to google before anyone says but I don't understand.

Are you kidding???

I was going to start a thread about this. Well more so how are people in NI and do you think this is going to get worse? I tried to look into to it as well (too young to remember troubles) and found a thread from Patrick Kielty on Twitter which explains it really well.

Brexit has done so much damage

@ZNation maybe if you try googling northern ireland and brexit you might get a better idea.

Sky already blaming this on 'the EU's Brexit deal'

@Ginmakesitallok

Are you kidding???

I know there is history of trouble in Ireland but unsure how Brexit has provoked it that's why I have asked whether it's to do with trade coming through a certain way or what. Thank you to the poster who said a thread on twitter explains it I will have a look

My partner is from Belfast. This is his explanation.

Police did not charge anyone for attending a large funeral (Sinn Fein leaders attended along with 2000 others during lockdown)

However, police have started to crack down on drug gangs and he thinks the above funeral is being used as an excuse to start attacking the police.

As for Brexit, unhappiness about a sea border is as much as I understand.

Some Loyalists and Unionists in NI are opposed to the Britain/EU border being in the Irish Sea. They believe it diminishes their Britishness.

The troubles aren’t in Ireland. They’re in NI ie. the UK. It amazes me that British people still don’t seem to understand this. It’s a UK problem, not an Irish one.

Anyhoo..this recent bout of unrest is a kick back against police raids on drugs gangs in Loyalist areas. Not Brexit. And some Loyalist groups are bringing up a funeral attended by Sinn Fein members in 2020 as a reason for the unrest. Which (even if you disagree with the that, which I do)...is complete bullshit. Disgruntled drug dealers and bored, broke teenagers are behind it.

The reporting on it on the BBC has been garbage.

I agree the reporting on the BBC is shockingly bad. I have found out most of my information from Twitter or friends who live there.

It is indeed a UK problem. Boris tweeting isn't going to be enough.

NORTHERN IRELAND. We the Republic are not part of NI.

Northern Ireland is part of the UK
(The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland)
The South is the Republic of Ireland and remains in the EU

What was one country was divided, but recognises both ‘southerners’ and ‘northerners’ as Irish. They are free to travel and live on either side of the border.
A physical border is not permitted under the Good Friday agreement

Brexit has taken the UK out of the EU and out of the single market.
This brought a conflict between the Good Friday agreement and the EU single market.

For separation from the single market there should be a trade border between the republic and NI
This is not permitted under the Good Friday agreement and is unacceptable to those who require a single Ireland
A virtual trade border between NI and Great Britain is unacceptable to those who require NI to be part of the UK

Put in political rhetoric, sectarianism etc and the young who can be manipulated and violence is back

There’s no trouble in Ireland.

Northern Ireland, a country in the UK, remains a shitfest, though.

I'll try and give the gist of it, but bear in mind this is a huge simplification.
Under the terms of the Good Friday agreement (which ended the troubles), people living in NI were free to be either Irish or British as they choose and entitled to an Irish or UK passport, or both if they wanted. There was to be an end to the border between NI and the ROI (and obviously there was not a border between NI and GB).

Along came Brexit, and with it the unsolvable problem of needing a customs border between the ROI (as part of the EU) and NI (as part of the UK). The issue was highlighted as having potential for restarting the troubles but dismissed as scaremongering nonsense.
NI voted 55% remain in the referendum.

Theresa May came back from her negotiations with the EU with the Backstop as a potential solution. The Backstop would have required keeping NI in the EUs single market until an alternative arrangement were agreed between the EU and the UK. It would apply potentially indefinitely until the UK and the EU were both sides agreed on a different arrangement. In NI the Nationalists (favouring a united Ireland) supported the backstop whereas Unionists (favouring the UK) opposed it. Theresa couldn't get it through parliament despite trying several times as she needed the DUP to form a majority and they opposed it.

Then Boris got in and didn't need the DUP. He got rid of the Backstop (the fact that it tied the UK to the EU potentially long-term was a major problem for him). He negotiated the current agreement (which effectively puts the border in the Irish Sea - so a border between NI and GB). The Unionists are unhappy with this, and it's generally seen as a 'win' for the Nationalists. That tension has bubbled along for months, and is coming to a head now (triggered in part by the recent court decision that Sinn Fein attending a large funeral last summer was not a breach of the covid regulations - again seen as a 'win' for the Nationalists).

I was wondering when this would pop up on mumsnet considering it is mainly a uk parenting site and so many people professed to care about NI when it came to Brexit. Then when it does pop up posters have the wrong country

Ffs, someone is trying to learn a bit more about the complexities of NI and this is the response they get?

I’m from NI, still live here, and don’t understand the ins and outs of every different faction, or the full and complicated history of the troubles from both sides. Give the OP a break ffs.

In answer to your question OP- on the face of it, it’s to do with the Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist community being pissed off about the sea border between undermining the union.

In reality, the it’s now harder to get drugs in through the ports in the north, and that’s pissing off the Loyalist Paramilitaries because £££. In turn, they’ve stoked up young people in their communities to “protest” against the sea border, claiming that it’s an act of patriotism for their country, without dirtying their hands.

It’s fucked up and frankly embarrassing as a Protestant/ Unionist that these people are trying to drag us back despite what we’ve come through as a community in the last 20 years.

It’s not really getting in to ‘the complexities’ to distinguish between Ireland and the UK. I’m not attacking the OP individually, it just pisses me off that so very many British people seem to think it’s all some ‘Irish problem’ that is ‘happening over there’, rather than what it is, which is a UK problem happening in the UK.

It was the same when I was a kid in the 89s. You’d think things would’ve changed.

80s

@TerribleCustomerCervix

Ffs, someone is trying to learn a bit more about the complexities of NI and this is the response they get?

I’m from NI, still live here, and don’t understand the ins and outs of every different faction, or the full and complicated history of the troubles from both sides. Give the OP a break ffs.

In answer to your question OP- on the face of it, it’s to do with the Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist community being pissed off about the sea border between undermining the union.

In reality, the it’s now harder to get drugs in through the ports in the north, and that’s pissing off the Loyalist Paramilitaries because £££. In turn, they’ve stoked up young people in their communities to “protest” against the sea border, claiming that it’s an act of patriotism for their country, without dirtying their hands.

It’s fucked up and frankly embarrassing as a Protestant/ Unionist that these people are trying to drag us back despite what we’ve come through as a community in the last 20 years.

Thank you, sorry I posted to be honest but thank you to the posters who have taken the time to reply with a brief summary of events,

@TerribleCustomerCervix do you think it is going to get worse? Will we see what it was like in the 80's again

Lol at the ''EU's brexit deal''

wow

@ZNation thanks for that. I'm from Dublin and should know a lot more than I do.

@TookHerForADrinkOnTuesday

It’s not really getting in to ‘the complexities’ to distinguish between Ireland and the UK. I’m not attacking the OP individually, it just pisses me off that so very many British people seem to think it’s all some ‘Irish problem’ that is ‘happening over there’, rather than what it is, which is a UK problem happening in the UK.

It was the same when I was a kid in the 89s. You’d think things would’ve changed.

There are a huge number of people across NI who consider themselves just as Irish as someone born and bred in Cork, Galway etc.

To them, Northern Ireland as a state doesn’t exist and they don’t recognise it. Just look at anyone from Sinn Fein referring to “The North of Ireland”.

So if you don’t get that one element as someone who seems to have an Irish background, how on earth do you expect someone from England or Wales to get it?

It’s not really getting in to ‘the complexities’ to distinguish between Ireland and the UK. I’m not attacking the OP individually, it just pisses me off that so very many British people seem to think it’s all some ‘Irish problem’ that is ‘happening over there’, rather than what it is, which is a UK problem happening in the UK.

Agree with this, although I think it’s mainly in England that people who can’t differentiate between NI and Ireland. Certainly in the west of scotland we are all very aware of the geography.

That aside, the current issues were entirely predictable and any politician who couldn’t foresee it should resign.

This twitter thread might help;

twitter.com/shockproofbeats/status/1380180030760890368

[quote IsurviveonCoffeeandWinein2021]@TerribleCustomerCervix do you think it is going to get worse? Will we see what it was like in the 80's again [/quote]
I fucking hope now- I persuaded Dublin DH to move up here because we could afford a standard of living that was out of reach for us in Dublin.

It’s is more than embarrassing when his parents call him to check that he hasn’t been caught up in any trouble (occurring in Belfast) when we live in a sleepy village 10 miles away...