Northern Ireland troubles *title edited at OP's request by MNHQ*

[ZNation]

Could someone help me with the troubles in Ireland and why Brexit has provoked this ? What the issue is and are people generally against Brexit in Ireland?
I have tried to google before anyone says but I don't understand.

This is a good read of the situation

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/07/northern-ireland-leadership-violence-worse

It could be seen coming a mile off. They knew Brexit would undermine the GFA and risked peace. Johnson lies about the border. It’s verging on criminal politics.

@Straussful

It is embarrassing to the UK how little the ordinary man or woman know about this situation IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

These (currently) are loyalist thugs rioting. Loyal to whom you might ask? To the United Kingdom and the Crown. Who cares about them? Seemingly not the British or the Crown. This is a situation created by Britain and now they want to pretend it's not happening and wash their hands of the mess they have made.

I have heard it said (on Irish radio) many times in the past 24 hours: if this was Bristol or Brighton or Birmingham it would be headlining news bulletins and making the front page of newspapers, instead there has been deafening silence and questions like this OP.

Scarlet for ye.

It's not IN OUR OWN COUNTRY. The UK consists of different countries, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I don't know everything about all of them. And the issues in NI are rather complicated. Good on OP for asking.

@VodselForDinner

There’s no trouble in Ireland.

Northern Ireland, a country in the UK, remains a shitfest, though.

Exactly what I wanted to say!

have to go back 800 years or so to when the British started their ongoing campaign of occupying Ireland

That was the Normans, the people who invaded and occupied England. Later on both England and Scotland invaded Ireland (though no one wants to mention the latter).

It's not IN OUR OWN COUNTRY. The UK consists of different countries, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I don't know everything about all of them. And the issues in NI are rather complicated. Good on OP for asking.

I’m pretty sure if this was happening in England all the UK would know about it, the non-English countries are underrepresented in ‘national’ media and in government.

It's not IN OUR OWN COUNTRY. The UK consists of different countries, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I don't know everything about all of them. And the issues in NI are rather complicated. Good on OP for asking.

You appear to be one of the reasons we have the exploding situation. Nasty I’ll informed nationalism. I don’t mean I’ll informed about the troubles, but I’ll informed about our country. The very basics.
The U.K. is our sovereign nation. It is happening in our country. Sovereignty is why many said they wanted Brexit. Not that we ever lost sovereignty, but now we have full control of our borders our government has decided to turn away from their promises and pop in a border to undermine peace obtained by the incredible work of Mo Mowlem and others through the GFA

It's not IN OUR OWN COUNTRY. The UK consists of different countries, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I don't know everything about all of them. And the issues in NI are rather complicated

Illustrating the problem right there MumUndone. Why do you think they are so complicated? A result of the overwhelming success of the British Empire? It is your history. Washing your hands of this with a "I don't know everything about all of them" is a shitty, ignorant response and just not good enough.

It's not IN OUR OWN COUNTRY. The UK consists of different countries, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

I love how every single time people do the list it’s England first and Northern Ireland last. Every time, without fail. Tells a story.

@N4ish

It’s desperately sad. The vast majority of people in the UK (including Westminster politicians) couldn’t give a damn about Northern Ireland. The same for most people in the Republic - if they could take a scissors and cut NI off from the rest of the island they’d be thrilled.

That's not true about people in the Republic. I'm in my late 40s and have very vivid memories of the Troubles, although I didn't experience them directly. The events there were constantly on the news and there were lots of documentaries etc. People in the Republic have a much better understanding of the complexities of the situation than people in the rest of the UK. I've seen countless posts on MN from British people who seem to think that the Troubles revolved around the IRA planting bombs in England. They're oblivious to the existence of Loyalist terrorist groups and of the role the British army played in the conflict.

I'll admit I was very sceptical about the ceasefires but I'm very happy that I was proved wrong on that score. I'm delighted there's been peace in NI for such a prolonged period, albeit with ongoing undercurrents and tensions. I feel a sense of kinship with the people of NI - we inhabit the same small island after all. And I have huge sympathy for the suffering and trauma the people there have endured - suffering that went on for decades. Like a lot of people my age, I'm watching the news with a growing sense of unease.

I've seen countless posts on MN from British people who seem to think that the Troubles revolved around the IRA planting bombs in England. They're oblivious to the existence of Loyalist terrorist groups and of the role the British army played in the conflict.

100% you see it on here all the time, people think the troubles were literally just the IRA bombing the mainland.

It's not IN OUR OWN COUNTRY.

That attitude exactly encapsulates what has been called the Andy Murray test: when he won, Britain has a winner, when he lost, Scotland lost.

This is however much much more serious than games of tennis, which Johnson and the ERG should have known.

I suspect though that they hoped it would be Sinn Fein kicking off, so they could blame them.

BathMatty you make a good point, yes I was as a soldier in Belfast in the seventies part of the problem and I recognise that, also you are right with regard to the so called Loyalist paramilitary groups such as the UVF and UDA but there is no one side who has clean hands I'm afraid, the La Mon restaurant bombing occurred during my time there, an action carried out by the IRA.
The fault ultimately lies with my country, the island of Ireland should be one nation that's obvious and I hope to see that happen one day.

It's so worrying because it only takes someone from either religion to get killed during these riots then the shit really will hit the fan. It'll go back to tit for tat attacks which will take us right back to how it was.

@Tomcullenisahero

It's so worrying because it only takes someone from either religion to get killed during these riots then the shit really will hit the fan. It'll go back to tit for tat attacks which will take us right back to how it was.

Yes this is a massive risk.

but there is no one side who has clean hands I'm afraid

Of course not & who would argue otherwise? However the fact is the Troubles didn't just involve bombing from "one side" which many people don't realise. Just like many think it was a religious war.

The La Mon bombing was horrific. That’s what Michael Stone claims set him onwards as a loyalist killer.
As far as I can see, the riots are being caused by:

1. The massive Sinn Fein funeral being allowed to go ahead
2. The Brexit situation causing a new sea border
3. The Easter holidays giving the wee chavs a chance to fight the police
4. The loyalist paramilitaries flexing their power against the police due to lots of their drug gangs being busted by the PSNI
5. No decent government from Stormont

Shame on Arlene for betraying the Ulster voters over Brexit. Shame on Michelle for attending the massive SF funeral. Both women have shown poor and sectarian leadership and this is the result. As for the British government, well no surprises there.

My dad was in the RUC (8 medals) and two of my grandparents had medals for fighting in WW2. The British have continuously dismissed the contributions of the N.Irish people to the U.K. I’m a unionist by heritage and inclination but I think a United Ireland is inevitable and probably preferable just because of the utter contempt that the English have for the people of N.Ireland.

Oh and I just want to add that the VAST majority of N.Irish people do not support violence, terrorism or anything illegal. Most people just want to get on with their lives in peace.

I really wish Brits would stop touting the “I’d support a united Ireland” line like it makes them some kind of profound thinker and philanthropic donor.

There is likely to be little support from Ireland to take on Northern Ireland. Britain has ruined it, economically, civically, politically.
It’s a hot mess.

The problem is no one wants it but the Tories treat it like a rusty trampoline at the end of their garden.

There is likely to be little support from Ireland to take on Northern Ireland. Britain has ruined it, economically, civically,

A lot of republicans I know don't want the financial burden of NI

erribleCustomerCervix

Ffs, someone is trying to learn a bit more about the complexities of NI and this is the response they get?

I’m from NI, still live here, and don’t understand the ins and outs of every different faction, or the full and complicated history of the troubles from both sides. Give the OP a break ffs“

Thank you: it’s complex and I think lots of people are put off of asking questions because of some of the less than helpful replies.

But would there be such a financial burden if Ireland was re-united? Aren't some of the problems caused by what is an artificial border?

I ask this as a genuine question. Under the GFA the border was minimised - was this helping to improve the economy of NI? How many problems in NI are caused by neglect from Westminster? (This applies not just to NI, btw.)

A lot of republicans I know don't want the financial burden of NI

By rights if there were to be a reunification the British government should be compelled to pay continuing reparations to aid the recovery of the land. obviously will never happen. They don’t even lol after NI now while it’s part of their union.

so very many British people seem to think it’s all some ‘Irish problem’ that is ‘happening over there’, rather than what it is, which is a UK problem happening in the UK.

Brexiteers were continuously warned 'Project Fear' that smashing the status quo vis a vis Northern Ireland was playing with fire.

The essential problem IMO is that the current UK government and their supporters don't really care about whole swathes of society.

When they finally accepted that covid was going to impact the NHS, their reaction was to make space in hospital by dumping any elderly people in hospital back to nursing/card homes without any covid testing, or PPE for care staff. Result a significant reduction in just the people who cost the NHS most.

Their Brexit was essentially motivated by avoiding the EUs anti-tax avoiding legislation, against which an intractable border problem away from mainland UK didn't really feature that high up their priorities. They ultimately view NI as a drain on UK resources analogous to the elderly which the government would happily live without. They would also be able to bring back lots of civil service jobs which would be very welcome, too, to help regenerate.

Lots of commentators have likened the Government's distraction tactics, blaming immigrants / The EU for problems caused by a decade of austerity to Trump in US. In fact, the NI loyalist politicians have been using the same tactics to maintain division for decades. They were keen on Brexit because they assumed very wrongly that a UK government would never put the border in the Irish Sea.

And yet, and yet here we are.

Why are people unable to google or research in any way?