Westminstenders: Penny dropping time

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson already seems to be hinting at protections for workers rights and the environment that he promised are to be dropped.

Along with enshrining Brexit in law to the end of Dec 2020 thus creating another Brexit no deal date. This time without any safety net in parliament.

"won't Johnson be more liberal than he suggested" they cry

About that...

Why should any place of worship that preaches hate be allowed to continue? There's free speech and freedom of worship and then there is formenting hate.
That applies to any place of worship in the UK.

Let's turn that round and ask why should the Jewish Chronicle be allowed to continue in existence if it forments hate against Muslims as per the Melanie Phillips article? Should we close it down?

And there has been a concerted effort to say that antisemitism is just criticising the Likud government

Unfortunately, if you argue that criticising the actions of a state is anti Semitic, you will get people who conflating the two in both directions.

I'm not condoning this. But it is an obvious consequence of cynical political discourse.

Outlawing the boycott movement is protecting the Israeli govt from the consequences of its illegal actions against the Palestinians

The South African govt was brought to its knees and forced to end its apartheid state peacefully

I agree with DG:
successive Tory govts were foiled by millions of ordinary people who supported those boycotts,
all those of us who boycotted SA produce in the shops to those of us who boycotted banks & other companies to pressure shareholders

Lists of companies & institutions helping Israel can be shared online
... Unless BJ plans a China-type online wall around the country

As an aside.. will we see any attempted amendments to the WA final Legislation? Or just no point bothering?

bellini I never mentioned you

I was just giving us all an example of the different levels of what is tolerated / criticised on the 2 sets of threads

We (rightly) expect high standards from Westministenders regardless of what the Brexit Arms or anyone else posts,
but the threads do not have the same standards

I don't know the answer regarding Media.

I think its shocking that journalists are allowed to spread hate.

And newspaper editors should be held to account for what they allow to be published.

Obviously Freedom of Speech is important, but surely there has got to be limits to what is acceptable.

So should the JEWISH Chronicle be shut down? If it persists on an anti Islam agenda then yes it should.

I will certainly be turning some of my energy here and in Germany to opposing laws banning an Israel boycott

I haven't decided whether I support any boycott - I need a lot more research -
but I totally oppose any govt taking away the right to choose and especially from local elected councils

I participated in the SA boycott, but I had friends who disagreed
That's fine
Noone organised us; it was just individuals listening to the arguments and making our own decision

Expecting higher standards of one group over another ..... which is what Corbynistas do in respect of Jewish people.

I’m sorry, but I am gutted that we are being misrepresented this way. It’s a cheap shot and wholly out of context with what goes on in the arms. The post to which Bufo refers, was an in context joke about Orwell, it just happened to have Diane as the protagonist, in our pretend vision of an impending socialist dystopia. Mumsnet agreed and reinstated the post after issuing me an apology. Dusty Has NEVER posted anything remotely racist either, and I think talking about deleted posts and positioning them as if they are some example of this nonsense is wholly unfair. How can she defend herself fairly against that accusation?

Douglas Murray references, are to do with a popular thread over in FWR. Which is being very well received and discussed calmy and in context, with zero histrionics. I haven’t seen a single poster supporting past views by the man, so again, unfair and a total misrepresentation of the arms.

Btw, I am 40 and several others on there are around this age, not 50-60. Not sure why on earth it matters though? So what if we use humour to deflect from a trying situation on all sides? Why is that offensive?

I can understand that

I am merely saying I wouldn't expect the same tolerance if Westministenders had something like that
We haven't in the past
Any possible slip is pounced on

I look forward to the leftie intellectuals chucking their iPhones as part of a boycott of China.

Or is that entirely different?

I’ve dipped into Brexit Arms enough to know that a. racism is fairly standard and

Blatant lie

b. you’re mostly culturally illiterate enough not to recognise it.

🙄

Ah yes, the standard plea of 'just joking'. Goes with 'Oh I don't mean you'

"Expecting higher standards of one group over another "

Is that of Israel or of Jews ?
I expect the same standards from Jews and Muslims in Britain or elsewhere in Europe
Either breaking the hate speech or incitement laws should be prosecuted

I expect higher standards of Israel than of Hammas & co
Just like I expected higher standards of the British govt & military than I did of the IRA
The Birmingham bombs did not excuse the Birmingham Six or Bloody Sunday

A government that claims ownership of its territory and to be democratic should always have much higher standards than a guerilla or terrorist movement

Lists of companies & institutions helping Israel can be shared online

For now. Remember that dragnet anti-"terror" legislation ?

With Trump in the US, and Boris in the UK, it would be the work of a pen to just say "sharing any details to encourage a boycott of Israel is hate speech" and that's that. Share it - go to jail. Have it on your computer - go to jail. Try to discuss it in a meeting - go to jail.

Don't expect any help from Facebook or Google, who have already made it clear they are on the side of evil. They'd happily spaff up details of anyone discussing boycotts on FB/Instagram/Whatsapp, or searching for details via Google.

I look forward to the leftie intellectuals chucking their iPhones as part of a boycott of China.

Well if they want to, at least they have the information to make a decision.

For now.

Well, you are all clearly cemented in your views of us. Well done, if you believe that then I’m not going to try to convince you otherwise. Thanks for yet again taking my point completely out of context. I can only imagine why, politically, we are where we are. What’s the point? Think what you like. It’s 100% untrue, but have at it anyway.

Take care, I’ll leave it there.

"you’re mostly culturally illiterate enough not to recognise it."
What an uncharacteristically nasty remark.

I would oppose any law making it illegal to boycott iPhones or China
just as I do re laws on Israel

The govt should butt out and let people and their elected councils boycott countries if they want to

I'm surprised that wouldn't be supported in the Brexit Arms:
that the govt should butt out of morals.

The govt should allow people and local councils to make their own moral decisions when it comes to buying
to pay more or buy alternatives if they wish

One thing these threads can do over and over again is make people feel like shit if they are not quite as clever or knowledgable as others.

Or perhaps it says more about the character of the person that is being nasty.

Good natured debate is fine. No need for nasty comments.

I haven't seen anything racist in the Arms but I don't go in there all the time. But if there is racism here or there then report it and hopefully eventually said individual will get banned.

What an uncharacteristically nasty remark.

Do you think? I was referring to the Brexit Armers no-one else. That’s certainly my experience of them. After some discussions about race I gave up.

I never go to the BA
but I'd rather people were told something is unacceptable and why, rather than be banned
Unless they keep repeating it

I can’t agree that calling out racism for what it is is ‘nasty’. I find racism nasty, personally. I really really dislike it.

The idea that MN bans racist posters or even remove racist posts is very naive ime. There’s general race blindness on MN that I don’t see on other forums.