Westminstenders: Penny dropping time

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson already seems to be hinting at protections for workers rights and the environment that he promised are to be dropped.

Along with enshrining Brexit in law to the end of Dec 2020 thus creating another Brexit no deal date. This time without any safety net in parliament.

"won't Johnson be more liberal than he suggested" they cry

About that...

To make a claim about everyone on an entire thread is wrong.

I think we would all call put something racist at the time.

You've made the claim that people are racist. What have you got to back it up?

When tactical voting works, because people feel happy doing it:

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/five-crucially-important-but-frequently-ignored-facts-about-the-2019-election-labour-conservatives-brexit-corbyn-johnson

The one election in which tactical voting made a significant difference was in 1997,
when the Tories lost at least 30 seats they might otherwise have held.

That was the election in which Labour and the Lib Dems were both led by popular politicians with centre-left visions for Britain’s future which were not identical but broadly similar.

Lib Dem supporters could vote for Blair’s party with enthusiasm;
likewise Labour supporters for Paddy Ashdown’s party.

That’s my experience of them but it’s a while since I bothered going in there. Perhaps they’ve reformed in the mean time

Damn, just remembered how much I miss Paddy Ashdown
Yep, voted for him

I was referring to the Brexit Armers no-one else.

For clarity: it's not nasty if it's directed at a particular group who have been earmarked as lesser in some way

That’s certainly my experience of them. After some discussions about race I gave up.

Screenshots, links, proof - or it never happened

You keep lying about supposed 'race hate' on the other thread

Please stop

I can’t agree that calling out racism for what it is is ‘nasty’. I find racism nasty, personally. I really really dislike it.

Agree

But that's not what you did

You made up lies about other posters on MN

I find that nasty, personally. I really really dislike it.

That’s my experience of them

Stop lying

Fucking hell. Can we talk about something less depressing (and less cruelly oppressive of the true-victors-cum-victims-of-MN) like norovirus spreading around the local schools?

Did someone mention Google ? Oh, yes, I did ... coming to the UK soon ? Remind people of their employment rights and get P45d ?

www.theregister.co.uk/2019/12/17/google_security_engineer_fired/

Google on Friday fired security engineer Kathryn Spiers after she created a Chrome popup notification reminding her colleagues that they have the "right to participate in protected concerted activities."

Spiers claims she was fired for labor organizing, a protected workplace activity.

Spot on BigChoc - re Ashdown and Blair. Ashdown also had taken time to build up his profile. Blair - I am not so sure about him - I think Smith had done a lot of the spade work for him, but Blair, a bit like Wilson before him, was crafty or canny enough to see which way the wind was blowing.

I've reported posts on the Brexit arms for racism and they have been deleted.

I find MN a bit of a parallel universe at times. A post calling out racism on a thread where I have personally witnessed it is deleted and characterised as ‘nasty’. And yet I’ve seen actual racist posts left to stand.

It’s depressing that we live in times that racism is on the rise, has become culturally acceptable and in some case actively cultivated (eg the Leave and London mayoral campaign) and so many are, or claim to be, oblivious.

I've reported posts on the Brexit arms for racism and they have been deleted.

Likewise I have reported posts on here for antisemitism and they have been deleted

But I would never, ever, go round calling the entire thread a hotbed of antisemitism 🤷🏻‍♀️

Because that would be a lie

(Do you see how this works yet?)

There’s general race blindness on MN that I don’t see on other forums.

But I also agree with this. Overtly racist posts will get deleted but they have to be quite far over the line. Also white racism (against Eastern Europeans) is more likely to be dealt with.

I’ve seen them too. Usually followed by a chorus of “didn’t do nuffing wrong” or “it was only a joke”. Followed by emojis - but only the right sort of emojis

Yes, sure. I'm comfortable with calling Douglas Murray fans racists though.

I’ve reported posts on the Brexit arms for racism and they have been deleted.

So have I - some of them have some of them haven’t.

I’ve also witnessed other threads on MN with multiple racist postings that weren’t deleted despite the black posters (in that case) saying how upsetting they found them. (In a couple of cases the whole thread should have been deleted). I find MN mods here very cloth-eared on racism.

Overtly racist posts will get deleted but they have to be quite far over the line.

It has to be very obvious for it to get picked up.

When a PM can be elected claiming freedom of speech or "just joking" for saying things like

"picanninnies with watermelon smiles"
Muslim women as "letterboxes"
"bum boys"

that obviously raises the bar for what can be called racist or homophobic

Some may well think that when the PM - the one you voted for - uses such words and phrases, that it is ok.

Trump has changed what is acceptable in the USA in some circles, with his very crude racial insults

So what happens with a firm who wants to trade with the EU, and therefore will have to abide by their standards? This sounds like another ill-thought out idea of Johnson's in the 'they need us more than we need them mould'. It will be very easy for the EU to say 'abide by our rules or no trade'.
This is "fuck business", in practice.

Various commentators are talking about Johnson and 'cakeism' in that he has his cake and eaten it. So it looks as though we will be leaving at the end of January - but he hasn't actually delivered anything yet.To my mind the cake is still there on the shelf, waiting to be served to him.

I would be very wary of any Douglas Murray fans, as I would of David Irving fans

There are far better writers around who aren't Islamophobic or Holocaust deniers

@DustyDiamond

I don’t have the time or patience to go trawling through the smilees to find the racism and xenophobia I have witnessed.

On one small point tho - can you see how an OP with this:

We saw off Jezbollah, Mao-ZeMcDonnell next to a pic of Boris holding a Union Jack, whose racist comments are on record, could be seen as problematic?

"It will be very easy for the EU to say 'abide by our rules or no trade'."

It will not merely be easy, but mandatory under MFN requirements,
unless they want to let other countries break the rules too

Most countries and all trade blocs have rules about what they'll let in to their country

The future EU trade deal is looking like a bare bones tariffs & quotas deal, with major NTBs (Non-tariff barriers) that will hammer British exports
..... unless BJ drops some red lines

And of course the last thing British exporters need in markets outside Europe is anti-boycott legislation that disadvantages them compared to foreign competitors.
The US has superpower muscle and monopolies on some tech. The UK doesn't