Westminstenders: Penny dropping time

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson already seems to be hinting at protections for workers rights and the environment that he promised are to be dropped.

Along with enshrining Brexit in law to the end of Dec 2020 thus creating another Brexit no deal date. This time without any safety net in parliament.

"won't Johnson be more liberal than he suggested" they cry

About that...

What strikes me is how Johnson/Cummings hit the ground running in July

The plan to get a harder right Brexiter to replace May and what they would do with May’s deal when they got there has been in place since 2016.

I don’t think they expected to break the red wall in the way they did. They were expecting some Lexiters to vote for them to get Brexit, which came to pass, but much of their victory was handed to them by Corbyn - which couldn’t have been predicted. By all accounts the Tories were only a expecting a small majority.

@chatongris , I am on both regularly and the similarities are striking.
Speaks volumes that neither can see it.

HesterThrale This is why the Labour party need to get their own political psychopath and fast. All this soul searching and infighting about what went wrong, its really simple, they didn't have Cummings and Co. on their team.

WIn-win: hit those foreigners who are the poorest

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-foreign-aid-department-international-development-election-a9248626.html" target="_blank">https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-foreign-aid-department-international-development-election-a9248626.html<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-foreign-aid-department-international-development-election-a9248626.html?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=Feed" target="_blank">?

Senior Tories have attacked <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.independent.co.uk/topic/BorisJohnson" target="_blank">Boris Johnsonn’s plan to axe the department delivering Britain’s foreign aid, warning efforts to help the poor – and the UK’s security – will suffer.

Was losing their Master of the Dark Arts - Mandelson - and Blair's spin machine more damaging than losing Blair ?

Bringing feather dusters to a gunfight ?

Absolutely feather dusters. All over the place.

Just listening to Yvette C this morning talking about reflecting over Christmas about whether to run. Come on people you are so behind, get with it.

I strayed into the Brexit Arms once, by mistake. Not my type at all - people drinking themselves silly and under the table. I much prefer an afternoon tea myself.

Do we need to bother to talk about them? On the last thread we were getting the beginnings of constructive debate, with people across the spectrum.

commenting on racism in the Brexit Arms is a perfectly valid in the context of Brexit ideology.

There is no racism on there

Stop lying

Well I think the Labour Party could certainly do with dodgy bruisers like Mandelson and Campbell who understand spin and the media right now.

I remember some strategy meeting (corporate) where people said ‘crush them’ in terms of competition.

When one side has a crush them mentality and the other can’t even do spin properly let alone compete they’re toast.

Looking back through my emails, I see I also reported some of DustyDiamond's posts on the Brexit Arms, which were removed. All of this is reminding me why I hide that thread.

Which ones?

No racism

Most likely just me not putting up with nasty abuse 🤷🏻‍♀️

Please feel free to post screenshots in the interests of transparency though coz I'd hate to think you're trying to paint me as a 'racist' with no foundation

I'm seriously considering whether BJ's promise to outlaw the Israeli boycott was a quid pro quo

Israel has a very active global campaign to have laws prohibiting BDS introduced

I don't go in the Brexit Arms because I find it mostly inane and teenager-ish (despite suspecting that the average age of posters is well into five if not six decades) though I sometimes lurk and report racist posts.

In the same way I avoid this thread when people are taking the hate and cinders bait, it's just boring.

I don't mind reading opposing views, lord knows I often find myself agreeing with Louise and BCF and others whose political views I do not share.

chatongris I think there is a balance to that.

People should respect our values if they are in this country. Doesn't matter where they come from. And we should do the same wherever we go (yeah I know we're not good at this)

I am thinking specifically of a school in Birmingham where there have been protests over the curriculum.

Sure Dusty

And if a mosque preaches hate it should be shut down.

Just like a church should. A synagogue should etc.

Churches have preached hate throughout history - of other Christians, Muslims, women, gay people. They seem to like sex offenders though.

Why should any place of worship that preaches hate be allowed to continue? There's free speech and freedom of worship and then there is formenting hate.
That applies to any place of worship in the UK.

I'm seriously considering whether BJ's promise to outlaw the Israeli boycott was a quid pro quo

There has been a very successful online campaign to conflate anti-semitism and anti-Israeli sentiment.

I was on Twitter recently and saw an odd post being pushed (promoted) to me. It was a video about supposed anti-semitism in the boycott Israel movement - I should say up front that this is a subject I am agnostic about because I don't know enough about the people involved in the boycott movement.

It wasn't like the promoted posts I usually see - I mute all luxury brand, car and political party posts so I mostly see promoted posts by governments marketing tourism to their countries, local stuff (weather/travel) and academic journals. So I was curious and had a closer look.

Anyway, a little bit of investigation turned out that the video was being promoted by a branch of the Israeli foreign ministry and was all over social media. I concluded that the boycott movement may or may not be anti Semitic but that their movement is hurting Israeli economic interests and rather than addressing concerns about Palestinian rights they would prefer to shoot the messenger.

BJ intends to pass a law new law would not allow public bodies - elected councils etc - to work with those who boycott, divest from or sanction Israel.

Like the move Trump made last week for the US.

Just wait until it becomes a terror offence to pass on any details of companies that are Israeli based, so that you can't even encourage a private boycott without going on a list.

You think they took the anti-apartheid movement lying down ? Did they fuck. They just worked out how to make it impossible "next time".

DM used to boycott anything South African. Mrs T. would have disliked her intensely.

"There has been a very successful online campaign to conflate anti-semitism and anti-Israeli sentiment."
And there has been a concerted effort to say that antisemitism is just criticising the Likud government .

That Brexit arms quoting Douglas Murray, who has written

""Conditions for Muslims in Europe must be made harder across the board"

To help decide on that, imagine the reaction if anyone here quoted a writer who had once said:

""Conditions for Muslims Jews in Europe must be made harder across the board"

Would it be excused if we said we didn't know about that, or that it was when they were younger ?

Steve Bray giving up.

Personally I am very sorry.

I am not sorry that the People's Vote idea is dead. Considering this dirty election campaign, with IMO most of the dirt being dished out in spades by the Johnson camp and his backers, has led to a Tory win, then I think a People's Vote would have been corrupted in the same way. Then, we would have been stuck with the result - the people have voted for it twice.

It's a small glimmer of hope, but Boris Johnson now has to deliver - and he can't hide behind 'Remoaner' MPs thwarting him, or Labour, LibDems, SNP, Uncle Tom Cobbley and all. This will be his Brexit. He will try to make his failure stick - but well, once again, "Events dear boy, events." and "All political careers end in failure."

Why do you think I would approve of "making it harder for Muslims "? Weird.