To be so let down and furious with the Lib Dems

[Oakenbeach]

I now don’t feel I have anyone I can vote for - they have shown they are every bit as extreme as the Brexit Party in their own way, and are no more than a grandiose pressure group rather than a party serious about governing.

Advocating revoking without a referendum, was not only entirely unnecessary, but shows they aren’t just EU supporters but rather EU obsessives, putting our membership above all else, even basic democratic principles.

In the highly unlikely event they do form a majority Government, it would be with a circa 35% vote share... How that trumps the Referendum’s 52% and still be democratic I don’t know.

Rant over...

Any LD government which was capable of enacting this policy would by definition have won a majority in the House of Commons, which is generally considered (by people who have a basic understanding of the British constitution) to give a party a mandate for their manifesto.

So fed up with this holier than thou political purity theatrics. And I'm not even a LD voter!

Any LD government which was capable of enacting this policy would by definition have won a majority in the House of Commons, which is generally considered (by people who have a basic understanding of the British constitution) to give a party a mandate for their manifesto.

For normal policies I agree.... but to overturn a referendum result without another referendum may be legal but it would deepen our political crisis further and make our current crisis seem like a picnic.

Out in the real world, the LDs could only win a GE if there was overwhelming public support for the only Brexit policy which will "just make it stop".

Since there is not (yet) overwhelming public support for a "just make it stop" policy, a LD majority is rather unlikely.

All this is why referenda are so toxic.... It undermines our constitution pitting the representative democracy that forms the bedrock of our politics with direct democracy.

But the problem they have created is setting a precedent of ignoring majority votes. They cannot claim their authority comes from a democratic vote when they will not respect democratic mandates that they don't like. This is why democrats grant support both leave and remain have been stating how dangerous it is to delay and revoke and this is how we are being betrayed by the political class.

Since there is not (yet) overwhelming public support for a "just make it stop" policy, a LD majority is rather unlikely.

Given it is so unlikely, why pursue a policy that invites being attacked as soon palpably undemocratic. The LDs were already the “Remain” party - their new policy simply wasn’t needed to emphasise their Remain credentials.

So fed up with this holier than thou political purity theatrics. And I'm not even a LD voter

This is what gets me about our system.

A party could have a policy that the other 2 parties don't agree with.
The party could get 35% of the vote and still get enough sits to win a majority.
Yet the policies they want to get through are opposed by the majority of the population.

80% of the population voted for parties that said they would support Leave (in some form, yet Labour clearly did not want No Deal)

But 54% of the population voted for parties that did not want No Deal.

This is the kind of things that make our current FPTP system difficult.

I do think that it would be a really bad look if the Lib Dems got power with less than 50% of the vote and then revoked.

I do think it is bad that the Conservatives got 40% of the vote and are trying to force No Deal on us.

This question should never have been put to the people in the first place, it’s too complex for most people to understand it and on top, I think it’s quite clear now that the Leave side spoke untruths about the impact.

Time for the people in the driving seat to steer the country away from the cliff edge.

I disagree, I think this makes things clearer. Anyone who votes Lib Dem is voting Remain, full stop. I highly doubt they'll get a majority but it will go some way to demonstrating the public appetite for Remain which could help push for a second referendum in the case of a hung parliament.

Oh come on, which of us doesn’t want Brexit to just stop! It’s wasted three years of time and energy and untold £billions in cost. It was a bad idea and it won’t work. We need to get back to sorting out the REAL problems in the UK. If we vote for the LDs that’s what we can do.

I think it’s really patronising to say it’s too complex to put matters of political determination to the public. If you felt it was too complex, you could have done something about that but don’t assume that others are not capable of taking decisions for themselves.

If the Lib Dem’s win with their current position, they will have undermined their own political authority.

YABU. I joined them precisely because they were the only party not squirming on the hook of a flawed and fraudulent referendum.

I will definitely vote at a general election (for the first time) for the Lib Dems if they promise to revoke Article 50/Make It Stop.

A GE election win for the Lib Dems on a policy of revoke would be the right mandate for them to revoke if they won the election on that ticket and much preferable to trying to settle it via another referendum.

They’ve got two hopes .....

I just hope they don't split the Labour vote in any Labour / Conservative constiuencies.

With Labour, you get the chance of a vote between a good deal with the EU and Remaining.

I wish to remain. But I can see a lot of upset if a Government elected with less than 50% of the vote overrides the vote of 52% of voters.

But I think most Liberal targets are Lib / Conservative seats.

OneMoreForExtra - me too. After voting for one of the main parties for 30-odd years.

The problem is, revoking the ref even if lib fems won and it happened would be cataclysmic to British politics.
The leave voters have not gone anywhere, the eu, drowning its myriad of problems isn't suddenly going to be the amazing place these people think it is.

I agree with pp. Cancel this without further consultation. Wow. Its civil war. If that's not what we have already.

I will vote for the Lib Dems because they're a clear Remain vote.

While few of us knew much about the EU in 2016 we’ve had 3 years of enforced education. Many people have changed their minds. There won’t be civil war if we revoke and rethink - that’s just Project Fear!

Wow. Its civil war. If that's not what we have already

It's almost like a party with 40% of the votes and now a minority Government trying to take the country towards No Deal, despite 54% of people voting in the 2017 election for parties that actively did not want No Deal.

We need a change in our FPTP voting system.

So what do the LibDems stand for now? (Brexit aside) they have absorbed 'principled' MPs from the left and the right. So someone will have to abandon their principles or were they never principles in the first place!

It gives the UK a reasonable spread to vote for, revoke, deal + vote, most likely hard Brexit, definitely hard Brexit.
Most people should be able to find a position they agree with within that. I'm not really seeing the issue. Given our FPTP system Lib Dems would be highly unlikely to end up as the party of government.
We are a parliamentary democracy.

They're doing it as a total gimmick. Where were they three years ago when anyone could have actually done anything about this advisory referendum?

I like the fact that it's unequivocal, a nice change from all the faffing around. It will decimate the Labour vote I imagine and turn the GE into a second referendum. Fair enough.