Leavers aghast at getting arch Leaver as PM....

[Miljah]

Anyone else got Leaver 'friends', family or work colleagues who are stunned and horrified at getting Bojo The Clown as PM?

I want to slap them.

Instead, I cannot help myself, but I say things along the lines of 'Well, I guess it's a good thing getting a hard Brexit PM, at least now you know you're getting Brexit, come what may...' to which they say 'It didn't say anything about a no deal Brexit at the referendum'...

Well, my voting slip didn't say anything at all about what Leave would look like, too, which is why I didn't project what sort of Leave I, personally imagined; which is one reason why I voted Remain. Apart from all the other good reasons for staying on the inside of a hugely successful trading block.

My DB is a classic, flippy-floppy Brexiter.

Voted Leave. And, as above, told me what his version of Leave would look like. We'd have this, but not that, and so forth. Then, at the GE designed to seal TM's mandate, not only voted Labour but joined the Labour Party . Then, at the EP elections, voted LD- and is horrified about BJ.

FFS, the analytical ability of tarmac.

What did Leavers expect?

Tbh - no.

I think my mum voted leave, but she has long since recanted, voted Green in the European elections and thinks Blowjob is a clown.

My parents both voted Leave, utterly despise Johnson, but are absolutely terrified of Corbyn, even though Dad voted Labour last time. So, I'm unsure as to how they'd vote again.

Mum would probably still vote Tory as 'we didn't fight the war so Germans could tell us what to do'. (FML).

It's very interesting horrifying to me to view the influence the Daily Mail has on them over time.

(To add - I wouldn't vote for Corbyn either, but for different reasons).

Like you though, as I listen to them wring their hands over Johnson, I want to scream WTF DID YOU EXPECT?

I can't bring myself to talk about it with leaver friends, mainly because I'm not good at articulating my remain arguments when under pressure.
I can guess that a few would be horrified at the hard line no deal stuff now though.
I voted remain for similar reasons to you, OP.

My dad is probably OK with blowjob as PM. He was once a Norway/EEA soft leaver!

I can guess that a few would be horrified at the hard line no deal stuff now though

Has not happened yet. Now that UK and a leave supporter PM and Cabinet it may help to get a better deal about the Irish Border problem. That seemed to the only sticking point on the WA that T May brought back from EU

When we had the referendum, Cameron was PM. Excuse me for not having a crystal ball and therefore not predicting that he would throw his toys out of the pram and resign, that TM would become PM, tank her own election campaign and create such a shit show of a government that we now have BJ in charge.

If a week is a long time in politics, three years is an eternity.

I know... If you can - can you convince your husband into “leave was a reasonable idea but didn’t work the way he wanted - annoying but stuff happens and now vote remain /
Lib Dem and move on” Very few people will admit a massive mistake but most will change if you don’t rub their noses in it.
Note I find this incredibly hard to do in real life because leave was so obviously going to end like this but it is the way to get change!

Sorry I missed he was voting Lib Dem already! In summary flip flopping is annoying - but actually being prepared to change his mind is much more admirable than most who are just digging in (we need people to change But in Mumsnet mode I completely share your annoyance !

IWannaSee - your post shows why it would be good idea to another referendum in due course to confirm that the British people are happy with the terms on which we are leaving the EU. We could also include Remain on the ballot paper as this thread shows it's possible that some people have changed their minds in the last three years.

I read that as 'arch lever'

It's BJ's inability to read his files that will be the problem.

Actually yes, I do know a couple of people who have expressed this view.

I mean, at one level they don't have to like one specific politician just because he thinks the same way as them on one issue. And, let's face it, there are innumerate reasons to dislike Johnson and most of them have nothing to do with Brexit.

But also, Johnson isn't really a leaver, is he? He's an opportunist. He wrote two articles one for, one against in early 2016 and ended up coming down on the side that he thought would be most advantageous to himself.

He might be behind it as a strategy now because it chimes with his own agenda but he's never struck me as being an ideologically driven leaver like, say, Raab or Daniel Hannan.

My concern with another referendum is that unless the result is overwhelmingly for remain or leave, nothing will be concluded. Polls suggest we will end up with another 52/48 (or thereabouts) result.

vote remain / Lib Dem

The LibDems will cosy up with the Tories. Look at Swinson's voting record if you have any doubts about that.

In the twisted world of politics, in a GE a vote for the LibDems is a vote for the Tories and hence a vote for Brexit.

I'm so happy about having Boris as PM. Finally we are going to leave the EU.

We're going to crash out and boris, rees mogg and all their rich mates will make lots of money, as there is opportunity in choas if you have means to speculate.

I also would be pretty incredulous at a never who didn't want boris, he was at the front of the leave campaign, he was the one with the nhs bus ads iirc. So ludicrous to say don't want him now.

I agree with BlueJag

Polls suggest we will end up with another 52/48 (or thereabouts) result

Back to the argument that it does not represent the will of the people. Also if you can ignore the 2016 referendum result then what is the argument for not ignoring a subsequent result?

My concern with another referendum is that unless the result is overwhelmingly for remain or leave, nothing will be concluded. Polls suggest we will end up with another 52/48 (or thereabouts) result.

I support Remain but I accept that 52/48 was conclusive: the people at that time and based on the information available wanted to leave, and it was clear enough to the two biggest parties have worked towards that goal for the past three years and argued that it was the only option.

So another result that said 52/48 people will exit on the terms now agreed by the UK Government is not something I would like but it would be conclusive.

I think Leavers should rally behind the idea of a referendum as a way of definitively settling the question (well, it will definitively take us out of the EU; I am sure the arguments and divisions will continue, but they'll be even worse if we just get taken out by Boris without any further say).

I didn't vote leave because of Boris. I voted in spite of him.
I don't think you can keep asking the question though, especially since there is nothing to suggest that people have significantly changed their initial views.

I don't think you can keep asking the question though

Why not? Is that how we conduct any other area of decision-making? As new information comes to light, surely there comes a point where we revisit a decision. If we view a house for sale, and I say to my DW "do you want to buy it?", and she is keen, does that mean two months later, with a dodgy survey, concerns about the neighbourhood, and a bigger strain on our finances than we'd planned, I might not just ask the question again before we sign the contracts?

In any case, we're not talking about an arbitrary re-running of the referendum. Our sovereign parliament would debate the arguments and make the decision on whether another referendum is necessary. That's how it should work in a healthy democracy (although I don't know how healthy ours is at the moment ).

I don't think you can keep asking the question though, especially since there is nothing to suggest that people have significantly changed their initial views.

Maybe we should ban elections. Can't be asking people the same question every 5 years.

I don't think it's democratic to ask a question, tell everyone the result will be binding and then not do it. Why will people bother to vote in future? Already we struggle with voter turnout and this will not be improved by overturning an election in which record numbers cared enough to vote. We already have GE where manifestos are not binding and politicians go back on election pledges almost before the final vote is counted. This is not good for the country, where voters perceive many of our politicians to be self serving and dishonest. There isn't the public trust in our govt to rely on parliament to do as you suggest. Whatever they decided, it's not going to unite the country or conclude this matter in a way that will satisfy the entire country.

Mistigri, comments like that are why leave voters mostly CBA to engage on these threads. You shame yourself.

Milkywayfan unfortunately, my DB (not H...!) still wants to Brexit.

Just not a hard one, apparently...

He wants the one he was imagining on that fateful day 3 years ago, that involved seamless trade with whomsoever we chose; that 'stopped the EU making our laws', a re-emergence of our heavy industries; Britannia ruling the waves etc etc. All the Leave horseshit.