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Westministenders: Its Really Not Getting Any Better Is It?

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/12/2018 23:10

We are STILL on collision course for no deal.

Christmas is here, and whilst we might appreciate the respite from Brexit News, its really a luxury we can't afford.

The meaningful vote is scheduled for January.

Chaos is scheduled for shortly after.

I wish you all a happy and enjoyable Christmas.

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31
BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2018 22:43

Since the 2016 referendum, support for the EU has increased in all EU member countries, across the political spectrum.

Even support for further integration is surprisingly high
So, once the UK can no longer block this ....

Spain, Metroscopia poll:

“Would you say EU integration has gone too far, or should go further”

Should go further (%)

PP-EPP: 85
PSOE-S&D: 89

UP-LEFT: 77
Cs-ALDE: 86
VOX-ECR: 68 (the hard right populists - but even they support it !)

Overall: 81

Fieldwork: 10-12 Dec
Sample size: 1895

apricotjam389 · 19/12/2018 22:49

kenn me too sad

I go to HOC to stand with #Sodem frequently.

We have a policy of peaceful non engagement with the small rentamob of regulars who come and harrass us.

They've got so cross at being ignored they are now harrassing the police, media, Kay Burley, Laura Kuenssburg, Faisal Islam et al.

They are a very small group, organised by a few 'minders' keen to get footage to post on their FB streams.

They have some very vulnerable people with them. In fact we've got to know some, and there are some very sad stories of some who have been groomed by these types.

There's half a dozen regular ones, if that. The numbers are actually very small.

Sostenueto · 19/12/2018 22:55

olenuswimple JC did not mutter stupid woman he muttered, not said out loud or shouted, stupid people. My friend who is deaf and lip reads watched the clip and so did I.

Sostenueto · 19/12/2018 23:04

I believe in free speech and all that and there is good and bad in all but I have to say I get irritated when anyone is talking that a red sign is floating in the background even if I agree with it.(50%)

Sostenueto · 19/12/2018 23:06

Sorry that should read 90%.

FestiveForestieraNoel · 19/12/2018 23:11

I lipread because I'm deaf and I'm pretty sure Corbyn said 'Stupid woman'.

FestiveForestieraNoel · 19/12/2018 23:12

I'm also a Labour supporter and Remainer.

OlennasWimple · 19/12/2018 23:12

Sostenuto - there are hundreds of trained lip readers, both profoundly deaf and hearing, who have said that JC said "stupid woman". I guess this one will never be resolved to the satisfaction of either "side"

EtVoila - I share your frustration about the contempt stuff not getting media traction but this comment going around like wildfire. My guess would be that this is easy to understand for politicos and casual observers alike but the contempt stuff - and the vote of no confidence, and "will they publish or won't they" discussions - are largely impenetrable to the casual reader. But it all helps to turn people off politics, as it all seems archaic nonsense and further examples of "them in their ivory tower not understanding what the real world is like"

Sostenueto · 19/12/2018 23:13

In 50 years time will the EU still be together? Or will it have imploded on itself? The world is changing rapidly along with world politics, globalisation etc etc. Treaties and pacts will be over a 100 years old by then. Will they still be intact? These are important questions I have thought about in my average intelligence way. Nothing nowadays is permanent. Perhaps some thought to that conundrum would be advisable.

Sostenueto · 19/12/2018 23:19

People interpret the same things in different ways see the same thing and report it differently. What was more interesting was that the HoC is so full of so called educated idiots who are being paid to be there who could not organise a p... Up in a brewery let alone run a country, getting their knickers in a twist about someone muttering not SHOUTING a comment that a vast percentage of people agree with!

KennDodd · 19/12/2018 23:22

In 50 years time will the EU still be together?

What does that mean though? Leavers often come on saying the EU is going to implode soon, well, how does that happen, what would be the consequences of that for us if we stayed in the EU? I can't imagine it would be worse than what we're going through now. If the EU collapsed, the UK would be united working through it, at the moment, at times, it feels like we could be facing civil war in the UK because of Brexit.

Happygolucky25 · 19/12/2018 23:34

I don’t really get why stupid people is worse than stupid women 😂🤣
She is a women or is she going through a change !

Sostenueto · 19/12/2018 23:35

How many treaties have lasted more than a hundred years? I'm not a historian so I'm not sure but someone will say loads I expect. I think countries change, politics change, people change. The world changes. Russia is a constant threat to Europe. Things in the Ukraine are getting serious. Frictions occur. Can the EU hold together? No one can say for definite. The EU want a European army. The mere thought of that gives me a bit of discomfort. That eagle in the background you sometimes see at the EU summits...little things cause my nerves to jangle. Yes if we remain we would help if there was threats etc but at what cost to our country. Its always dodgy being a member of a club. You could get dragged into something you don't want to do. It is really the stumbling block for me personally to being 100% convinced about remaining in the EU. But I'm getting thereSmile

Sostenueto · 19/12/2018 23:38

It was a great example of people getting offended on behalf of others happygolucky and for the women to have a go at Berkow .

BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2018 23:40

sos There is a lot better chance the EU will exist in 50 years than the UK !

By then, NI will almost certainly left - if there is no Deal, it could happen in 10-20 years

If Brexit happens, especially ND, Scots will demand an Indy Ref within a couple of years and may well vote out

Sostenueto · 19/12/2018 23:44

Well I wish I had your positive view BigChocFrenzy but no one can say for sure.Sad

BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2018 23:46

Sos Do you worry about being in NATO
and being constantly dragged into US wars far outside Europe:

Iraq (twice), Afghanistan, Syria ...

Hundreds of British troops dead, thousands mutilated for life - one young lad at my gym lost his leg
... and that caused millions of refugees, terrorist attacks against us

The US bases in the UK are like US colonies, where US law reigns supreme
They even have nukes, over which we have no control or even information

BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2018 23:49

My view is not positive, sos - not about the UK
Brexit, even if it now is cancelled, is a catalyst for the breakup of the UK,
for the breakup of GB too

BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2018 23:50

Indie: This is why it matters if Corbyn mouthed ‘stupid woman’ at PMQs

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/stupid-woman-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-sexism-pmq-men-a8690861.html?amp&twitterr_impression=true

Within half an hour of Jeremy Corbyn seemingly mouthing “stupid woman” in reference to Theresa May at Prime Minister’s Questions today,
I had been asked by four separate men why it’s different when a man calls a man a stupid man.

Within an hour, I’d decided that I’d have to write something outlining exactly why.

Sostenueto · 19/12/2018 23:51

I try to stay positive about our beloved UK. After all it is our country, even if it is extremely difficult under these circumstances at the moment. Surely it can't be bad to love your country.Sad

Sostenueto · 19/12/2018 23:59

Yes I do worry about NATO too BigChocFrenzy being a member of any club has consequences especially those under the guise of keeping peace in the world.

Sostenueto · 20/12/2018 00:06

Honestly talk about being blown out of proportion! If JC had shouted it out across the HoC so it was clear and audible to all then maybe people might have a case against him. But for starters he did not say that ( after all members of the house are supposed to be honorable and he has said he didn't say stupid woman) and if the PM was offended that much ( doubt she noticed) she could stand up for herself. There are much more important things to think about.

HesterThrale · 20/12/2018 00:10

That’s very interesting, apricotjam. Thank you.
I go to HOC to stand with #Sodem frequently. We have a policy of peaceful non engagement with the small rentamob of regulars who come and harrass us.

It just concretes my opinion that bullies are a tiny minority but because they’re aggressive and shout loud, they get attention, people are alarmed and take note. They seem bigger than they actually are. I come across this often in my job. We should not fear them.

I am resolving to go and support Sodem as soon as I can. It is peaceful, non-aggressive free speech. Democracy in action.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/12/2018 00:11

Well, the PM of our country called me a "Citizen of Nowhere"
so since then and with this Brexshit, I've felt European first, British a long way behind

Sostenueto · 20/12/2018 00:11

I get called stupid at times and I'm a woman and I'm probably stupid compared to some on here but I don't give a damn! I know I'm not stupid and that's what mattersGrin

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