Westminstenders: Boom. The Brexit Backlash starts to hit.

[RedToothBrush]

So it turns out that immigration figures that stated students overstayed were wrong. The home office knew this. And sat on it. Since 2015. Under Theresa.

That smells a bit doesn't it?

Imagine it: "Let's do lunch Paul. I'll cover up and give you a nice immigration story for your front page. In return, crown me PM."

Then tonight BOOM. Labour look like they have made a move. Soft very swishy Brexit. Even less brexity than the Beano Brexit that the Tories have been trying to announce on the quiet over the summer whilst Brexiteers are on holiday.

amp.theguardian.com/global/2017/aug/26/labour-calls-for-lengthy-transitional-period-post-brexit
Labour makes dramatic shift on Brexit and single market
Party opens clear divide with Tories, with support for free movement and paying into EU budgets for up to four years

Labour is to announce a dramatic policy shift by backing continued membership of the EU single market beyond March 2019, when Britain leaves the EU, establishing a clear dividing line with the Tories on Brexit for the first time.

In a move that positions it decisively as the party of “soft Brexit”, Labour will support full participation in the single market and customs union during a lengthy “transitional period” that it believes could last between two and four years after the day of departure, it is to announce on Sunday.

This will mean that under a Labour government the UK would continue to abide by the EU’s free movement rules, accept the jurisdiction of the European court of justice on trade and economic issues, and pay into the EU budget for a period of years after Brexit, in the hope of lessening the shock of leaving to the UK economy. In a further move that will delight many pro-EU Labour backers, Jeremy Corbyn’s party will also leave open the option of the UK remaining a member of the customs union and single market for good, beyond the end of the transitional period.

Why would Labour suddenly do this? It's not just because of the youth vote. What about their leave voters?

Faisal Islam on the subject:
2. On Labour Leavers is very very interesting and involves quite the psephological judgement re the election....
...the calculation appears to be that Labour Leave voters had the chance to vote for Theresa May's brand of Brexit, and bar 5 seats, said No
Was that because Lableave voters were already signalled "hard Brexit"? Or many millions such voters much more concerned about other things?

Have Labour been polling their voters on this?

Theresa has also apparently set her sell by date: Friday 30th August 2019.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-sets-date-shell-quit-11061894.amp
Theresa May sets date she'll quit as Prime Minister - giving herself time to see Britain through Brexit

The longer the transition and the squishier it gets, the more the more you wonder.

Mr Barnier will enjoy his coffee and newspapers tomorrow as he prepares for round two of Brexit talks starting next week.

The question on his mind most: Will David Davis remember to bring his notes this time?

Catch I emigrated to Germany in early July, so asap after the referendum
I'm a STEM scientist, part of the science brain drain that has really ramped up.

Early July 2016, that is

At least howabout has coherent and consistent Leave arguments even I'd I don't always agree with her and doesn't descend into "you can always leave " point-scoring and I know she is a real person and not reading off a crib sheet it basing her arguments on Daily Mail type lies I can respect her and would probably like her in real life (even if we would have many interesting and stimulating disagreements )

Amusing as Thatsomecatch is, his/her arguments are truly ignorant (at best, in the true sense of the word) or bigoted (at worst), inconsistent and when one argument falls at the smallest of hurdles, then tries to attack the person and not the argument or to change the subject (which he/she still can't support with any coherent arguments)

The Uk has debated umpteen very controversial issues over the last decades:
Iraq war, nationalization, renationalisation, benefits cuts, nhs funding, abortion ...

Many folk often point out too, where other countries have done better

It's only Brexit where those on one side are frequently asked "why are you still in the Uk / why don't you go (home)"
Didn't happen on any of those other controversies

It's very extreme to keep experiencing this.
Do Brexiters regard dissent- or even pointing out awkward facts - as treason, Enemies of the State ?

Catching up

Red-thank you for the thread.
Pity that one poster is trying to derail it by bullying and being offensive to foreign posters.

BigChoc - # everyday racism

BigChoc - # everyday racism

Leavers is fick. Remaimers are vair vair learned and vair vair intelligent.

I'm prepared to believe that there is intellient life on planet brexit but you don't half make it difficult...

That if I may say, actually Brits who want to stay in the EU might well not have 27 options.
Because, you know, once the UK has finally left the EU, they might nit be allowed to stay thanks to immigration rules with non EU countries.
Unless you believe that any country in the EU is letting anyone out of the EU come in as they please??

As for 'hating the UK' etc... are you telling me you are happy to live in a country that is not respecting human rights, rights they said they were going to respect to the UN (NOT the EU). Or a country in humanitarian crisis thanks to efforts of privatising the NHS? Or the one that saw 30.000 people dying with no other reason that 'benefits should be cut because people who rely on benefits are always scroungers'.
Personally I am deeply ashamed of that.
What about you??
And I get why many, many people, British or not, will want to live somewhere where their quality of life is bound to be better (see above)

BigChoc - it's almost as if they are scared that such discussions might change people's minds and might want to stop Brexit.

After all. The. People. Have. Spoken. Forever.

And advisory referendums mean that democracy stops. We're not allowed to change our minds or be swayed by facts coherent arguments.

E27 citizens made important life decisions when they thought they had the permanent right to work in the uk:

they moved country;
Some married, had kids; don't want to uproot kids who grew up speaking English and are invested in the Uk education system
Some became SAHP, carers for kids, or elderly / disabled Brit inlaws

Some stayed in work, but are now middle-aged and much less attractive to employers
Or retired, with a Uk work and state pension

If they were Mystic Meg and realized there would be a Leave vote in 2016, then many would not have come at all, or just come for couple of years, then built their career elsewhere
They wouldn't have put down roots that are difficult to tear out.

So much easier to move country when young, single and fancy-free

Actually all the recent "memes" I have seen from the "yoof" in relation to Russell have been overwhelmingly positive, basically he "has given up da drugs" and (the celeb lifestyle). "in favour of dat knowledge|" Perhaps That could follow the model? Especially as Brand is studying other cultures and gaining skills that might help us survive in the post Brexit world......

^If they were Mystic Meg and realized there would be a Leave vote in 2016, then many would not have come at all, or just come for couple of years, then built their career elsewhere
They wouldn't have put down roots that are difficult to tear out.^

YY to that.
I would add too if they had known that the country that welcomes them with open arms was going to treat them as badly as that, like if they were less than nothing, scroungers there to take and never to give, bargaining chips whose life do not matter, then yes I doubt any EU citizens would have come in the first place.

I do think that misti earlier in made an interesting comment.
Leavers are getting more and more entranched in their views and more and more extreme.
Is it because they are now th only ones we hear? Or is it because the relentless opposition to their view and the fact reality doesn't match their view is making them more and more extreme?
That last situation wouldn't be good. Extremists and people who think they have nothing to loose anymore are dangerous.

Very interesting isn't it to see why the Remain campaign was such a winning strategy. I have neither commented on nor enquired after anyone's race. But because I am against uncontrolled immigration (while being in favour of some immigration irrespective of any person's race), the only possible retort is RACIST!!! And Remainers are the "intelligent" ones. Nice to see that you have learned so much from your oh so successful referendum campaign. Way to win friends and influence...

After misreading Russell Brand as Bertrand Russell I've spent the last few pages of this thread being very confused indeed.

They wouldn't have put down roots that are difficult to tear out.

I always remember a friend of my MIL, who got out of Weimar late, and was terrorised by Nazi racists (she was a brave great lady, but a fear of police dogs never left her) saying that her family members said:
"How can this happen here, we are German, we have lived here all our lives."

Could transpose that to thousands here who have suffered at the hands of May's HO and racist idiots.

Never is a good time to put up with racists.

It's very extreme to keep experiencing this.

It's arguably illegal.

www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/racist_and_religious_crime/#a03

"Definition of a "racial group"
The Act says a "racial group" means a "group of persons defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins."

Eeeeeowwwfftz

I have neither commented on nor enquired after anyone's race

You didn't specifically need to - your comments speak for themselves.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

People of certain mindsets would never have voted remain. They need to believe the lies, and can't hide what they are despite thinly veiled attempts at hiding. The ones that are less delusional post less in most places from what I see now, they see the abuse levelled at speaking out a la the Norths. This was the issue with allowing people like Farage a lead roll in the referendum. It's empowered fringe elements to feel safe in voicing hatred, and allows them to threaten others. Facts don't matter, because they never did. They don't even matter to the pm though, which is the most worrying thing.

MyRedPepper
they have nothing to loose

I think you meant nothing to lose not loose. But of course Remainers are the educated ones

Called it
You don't live here so you're a traitor.

RandomlyGenerated
I have neither commented on nor enquired after anyone's race
You didn't specifically need to - your comments speak for themselves

Quote me something Racist I have said.