Westminstenders: Boom. The Brexit Backlash starts to hit.

[RedToothBrush]

So it turns out that immigration figures that stated students overstayed were wrong. The home office knew this. And sat on it. Since 2015. Under Theresa.

That smells a bit doesn't it?

Imagine it: "Let's do lunch Paul. I'll cover up and give you a nice immigration story for your front page. In return, crown me PM."

Then tonight BOOM. Labour look like they have made a move. Soft very swishy Brexit. Even less brexity than the Beano Brexit that the Tories have been trying to announce on the quiet over the summer whilst Brexiteers are on holiday.

amp.theguardian.com/global/2017/aug/26/labour-calls-for-lengthy-transitional-period-post-brexit
Labour makes dramatic shift on Brexit and single market
Party opens clear divide with Tories, with support for free movement and paying into EU budgets for up to four years

Labour is to announce a dramatic policy shift by backing continued membership of the EU single market beyond March 2019, when Britain leaves the EU, establishing a clear dividing line with the Tories on Brexit for the first time.

In a move that positions it decisively as the party of “soft Brexit”, Labour will support full participation in the single market and customs union during a lengthy “transitional period” that it believes could last between two and four years after the day of departure, it is to announce on Sunday.

This will mean that under a Labour government the UK would continue to abide by the EU’s free movement rules, accept the jurisdiction of the European court of justice on trade and economic issues, and pay into the EU budget for a period of years after Brexit, in the hope of lessening the shock of leaving to the UK economy. In a further move that will delight many pro-EU Labour backers, Jeremy Corbyn’s party will also leave open the option of the UK remaining a member of the customs union and single market for good, beyond the end of the transitional period.

Why would Labour suddenly do this? It's not just because of the youth vote. What about their leave voters?

Faisal Islam on the subject:
2. On Labour Leavers is very very interesting and involves quite the psephological judgement re the election....
...the calculation appears to be that Labour Leave voters had the chance to vote for Theresa May's brand of Brexit, and bar 5 seats, said No
Was that because Lableave voters were already signalled "hard Brexit"? Or many millions such voters much more concerned about other things?

Have Labour been polling their voters on this?

Theresa has also apparently set her sell by date: Friday 30th August 2019.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-sets-date-shell-quit-11061894.amp
Theresa May sets date she'll quit as Prime Minister - giving herself time to see Britain through Brexit

The longer the transition and the squishier it gets, the more the more you wonder.

Mr Barnier will enjoy his coffee and newspapers tomorrow as he prepares for round two of Brexit talks starting next week.

The question on his mind most: Will David Davis remember to bring his notes this time?

Another trait of course is redefinition.

Redefinition of people. Redefinition of patriotism. Redefinition of democracy. Redefinition of uncontrolled. Redefinition of racism. Etc.

Maybe that's why leaver discourse is stuck. They can't get their redefinitions through.

imo, Brexit is likely to cause the biggest scientific brain drain out of the Uk in many decades

Some other kinds of UK skilled professionals - not scientists, I mean - may only be able to work in English-speaking countries
However, English is the international language of science, even more so than before in Germany

I think it is because Germany is attracting so many scientists from China, India, S Korea as well as within the EU
and English is the language all scientists need to know, to read the most important research in their field.

Even all our software manuals (for unscrewing the inscrutable on massive super-computers) are all in English, no German translations provided.

As I posted when I first arrived, after visiting the local town hall, to check my right to stay:
"Germany has the welcome mat out for UK scientists"

The Uk has lost many scientists to Germany & elsewhere and will continue to do so.
Is that a victory for Brexiters ?
Scientists are trained to look at facts and evaluate evidence. So you are probably well rid of us.
We know when we're not wanted and most other Western countries welcome scientists

Quote me something Racist I have said.

Presumably they have solved all dementia and mental health conditions where you come from?

PS you don't need to capitalise "racist".

Wow. Must have been a busy day.

We know when we're not wanted and most other Western countries welcome scientists

Who would have thought that this type of situation was even possible in 2017.

Extraordinary.

Morality doesn't seem to figure for some.

Yes, Elena seems like.

And still no news on the strange case of the disappearing remainer dad.

North Korea launches missile over northern Japan
If initial reports of long-range missile over US ally prove true, the act will be regarded as more provocative than previous short-range missiles

Woman12345

"Definition of a "racial group"
The Act says a "racial group" means a "group of persons defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins."

I am in favour of controlled immigration (regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, national origin). I am against uncontrolled immigration. This does not make me a racist. But your constant playing of the Racist slur confirms the winning strategy that has Remain where it is today.

Quote me one thing I have said which in any way insults, threatens, belittles or demeans anyone based the definition of Racism you provide above.

I asked two posters where they lived because EU migration has impacted some parts of the UK and some specific towns much more than others. E.g 93% of EU migrants settle in England. I wonder if the Scots would have been so pro EU if they had significantly higher EU migration.

One of the two people I asked chose to reveal she was not British but wanted to stay in the EU. I said she had 27 options. That's a fact. She later revealed she had already exercised that option by moving to Germany - another fact she chose to reveal.

Notice the change in time when addressing someone assumed to be British over someone knowingly foreign or has moved to another country.

That's the giveaway.

It's the same with the "it's just banter" line.

Given that pointy has lived, worked and raised a family here for over 20 years the answer to where they're from is, well, here. Or bedfordshire (random example). Someone who's given so much of their life to another country doesn't deserve to be told this isn't their home.

Tone. Bloody phone.

Catch Have you confused some posters with each other ?
I am a STEM PhD who emigrated to Germany last July but didn't state my nationality
In fact, I'm a British citizen
My late father fought at Dunkirk and was career UK military

@davidallengreen
When Game of Thrones is about a far more rational world than current UK and US politics. That.
Old Nan: have you heard of ice zombies, dragons, direwolves?
Bran: have you heard of Trump and Brexit?
(Pause.)
Old Nan: tell me more.

Fair's fair, That. Tell us some of your history. What brought you to MN? How many children do you have? How tight was the school catchment?

cat

Someone who's given so much of their life to another country doesn't deserve to be told this isn't their home.

For sure, or insulted for living in another place.

After brexit is binned, this cruelty will take serious effort to repair.
Which it will.

My late father fought at Dunkirk and was career UK military
And millions of anti racists and anti fascists have people like your dad to thank, BigChoc We've enjoyed this peace.

@BarackObama

"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..."

@BarackObama
"People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love..."

Detailled analysis of the referendum vote showed that it was areas with few immigrants who tended to vote Leave, btw
Those with a higher % of immigrants tended to vote Remain.

Also that the most likely indicator of a Leave vote, far more than age or education, was "authoritarian" views,
especially being in favour of capital punishment, also wanting corporal punishment in schools
Chart 2 showed a poll of what changes Leave voters most wanted to see after Brexit

thats you don't need to mention race specifically. You need to get up to speed with the definition of casual racism.

Getting our discussion back on track because you can't argue with stupid ignorant, here is the FT's take on Davis' and Barnier's initial meeting

https://www.ft.com/content/9207d244-8c07-11e7-9084-d0c17942ba93

As ever with FT, if you google the exact article title, you can get behind the paywall.

The UK Government has published a variety of "wishful thinking position papers" over the summer without ever getting down to the detail required in order to make progress.

It is England the UK that wants to leave. It is up to DD et al to come up with practical solutions that aren't "having your cake and eating it" It's not up to the EU to come up with "flexible and imaginative solutions" to the self inflicted problems of the UK's making. The EU didn't ask the UK to leave; the UK I refuse to say "we" chose to leave. No - 52% of those that voted in an advisory Referedum (there would have been more safeguards if it had been legally binding) voted to Leave - some of whom may or may not have since changed their minds - but that possibility cannot be contemplated

woman < Lindt chums >

*BigChocFrenzy I've seen another chart that suggests over 50% of Leave voters want - and assume that it will happen - to stay in the single market.

Another indication that the move towards a softer Brexit by Labour will be well-received.

How to get the message across that this is not straightforward is, sadly, still unclear.

That list of demands is so depressing. It highlights for me how much of the Leave vote really can be put down to the unregulated nature of the Referendum, in which Leave babble-bots and campaigners could promise people anything, with a complete lack of accountability.

Oh dear oh dear, the quality of our visitor's discourse seems to have deteriorated even further.

Just wanted to say that DD and I went to see Madness and guests tonight (probably means nothing to anyone under 35) and it was awesome. I have been to a lot of gigs but I don't think I have ever seen such a diverse crowd - toddlers up to people in their 60's, black, white,mixed, Polish, South American, Asian and everyone was dancing and singing along. Everyone was smiling at each other. One of the biggest cheers of the night was when a 'Fuck Brexit' caption was briefly flashed up. It really made me feel that the vast majority of decent people truly believe that this is one of the most stupid decisions in British history.

prettybird When I google, I just get blanked out lines.

According to Twitter, DD (still) hasn't arrived with a worked-out position. Is that the gist of the article? If it is - WTF?

TheElementSong It's been a long shift.

MissHoolie'sCardigan That is very cheering.