Dad wants to live in my brother’s rental house. How realistic is this?

[Denimes5]

My father is currently living in my brother’s house, paying him the full government rent a room scheme amount of £625 a month.

As expected, after a short time, he’s now decided he wants Dad out in the next few weeks.

Dad uses a zimmer, has a full package of care, has a urinary catheter, wears slip pads, often doesn’t get to the toilet in time to open his bowels and so there are faecal accidents.

He gets up at night to use the toilet a couple of times and my brother has to help him.

He doesn’t seem to have much recent memory at all and yet his recent brain scan didn’t show any dementia.

My brother wants to move him into his vacant rental house and charge the full market rental value.

There is no downstairs toilet in this house and I, as POA, would be expected to put a stairlift in.

My father says my brother has shown him round and he would like to live there.

The social worker says it’s actually worth exploring the funding options for this as the council might decide to contribute.

Dad would need a live in carer with support overnight. The cost would be extortionate. Then utilities, council tax, a cleaner, food, no doubt.

I am taking Dad to see a care home tomorrow as I think it might be more realistic.

How likely is it that my Dad’s wish to live in my brother’s rental house will actually be fulfilled?

I have my reservations about my brother’s plans but as POA, I have to consider all views and options.

I’ve spoken to Dad about how quickly his own funds would run out but he forgets.

I’m finding the whole POA situation a stressful place, providing so much support without any support.

no help but sending hugs. It’s tough.

Why as POA would you pay for the stairlift? Wouldnt your dad be paying?!

With your dads issues he wouldn’t get funding for a live in carer

Also a catheter is nothing - lots of people live their lives with a catheter

It will be cheaper to pay care home fees than to have a live in carer. I would also be wary of promises from the council to contribute to home living , they will do their best to push it back on the family. From what you describe they certainly wouldn’t be paying for a live in carer based on the issues you have mentioned with your dad.

Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I would have to organise a stair lift with Dad’s money.

Live in carers are usually used when someone desperately wants to stay in their own home or when doing so is in their best interests because it’s familiar and they are surrounded by their belongings and neighbours etc. That does not sound like the case for your father. It seems your brother is mostly trying to get rent from your dad and it would cost similar to a care home but without the activities they offer. Is your father against the idea of a care home? Has he visited any to compare? He might enjoy things like roast dinners, people to chat to, an en-suite etc. Imagine the hassle of going on a stairlift every time he wants to go to the toilet - that is taking away independence that he might have in a properly designed care home.

It's a crazy idea. You are absolutely right that the cost of the rent, utilities, and a live in carer would be extortionate. You have LPA, and as his attorney you need to make decisions in his best interests when he is no longer able to do so. Think in terms of what he needs, not what he wants.

By the way, dementia does not necessarily show up on a scan. The scan is generally to rule out other causes like a tumour, it may reveal signs of dementia but if it doesn't, that does not mean the person does not have dementia.

From what you have said I assume your dad has the money to self fund his care. Good luck with the care home, it is a much more realistic idea.

A care home is double the monthly rent per week, not even remotely similar costs.

I’m sure a catheter is nothing if you’ve got capacity and can manage it independently, understand its function and why it needs to be there.

It does make Dad more vulnerable though, as he can’t manage it himself, and the risk of him trying to pull it out and cause harm is one we’ve already encountered.

Definitely not a 24/7 carer - you’re right! 4 times a day care calls would be the most he would likely get.

We have done similar for mother in law. We rent a larger house than she needs and a family member lives with them and a room for a live in carer. It still works out cheaper than a care home, or it did for us anyway. Mother in law has dementia but is very settled and house has been furnished with her things so all familiar. The house rent is paid between us and the family member and we get some financial support for the carer.

But live in care in £6,000 plus, per month. Then there’s council tax, utilities, food, a cleaner.

Madness to move him to a house with no downstairs toilet. What if/when he finds stairlift too tricky and needs to sleep downstairs? You are then needing a commode. I doubt council would contribute if the house is larger than he needs and he has savings. Sounds more like your dbro wants a ready income and most councils would look on that as a potentially contrived tenancy.

…all the responsibility of running another household.

What support does the live in family member provide?

I can’t fathom how this would work out cheaper than a care home. Can you please explain?

I feel exhausted, on edge, can’t switch off from trying to work this out.

Then, the constant pressure from my brother.

Sounds to me like your brother just wants to have the mortgage on his other property paid (and is happy to rinse your dad / the state to fund it).

At least you seem aware of the potential for a better option for your dad with the care home.

She lives there as her home so pays 80% of rent as was renting anyway and pays council tax, bills etc as would be paying them anyway, obviously we contribute to these and mother in law has pension income to pay for food, towards care etc. Its very much a family effort, in that gaps in care covered by family. It works for us but if family member had not taken the leap and moved from her home into this rental house it would not have worked. We have not ruled out care homes at a future date. I really feel for you as we had hours of discussions on how to make it work.

The constant pressure and burden is relentless. The pressure to only consider what’s best for Dad. The idea of a care home providing some relief from it all for me isn’t actually what I’m allowed to consider. As POA I can only act in my father’s best interests even if I feel it would be detrimental to my health to be running his hypothetical rental home too. Am I right?

If your Dad doesnt have capacity and you are POA, you just get to decide and your brother doesnt have a say (unless he is jointly on the POA)

You can just find a care home and move your Dad in. Sounds like it would be better for your Dad and that is what you are meant to focus on with POA, not what someone without capacity says they want in the minute, what is actually better for him. Consistency, company, and someone who can help 24 7 is much better than carers visiting for 15 mins 4 times a day

To be honest i don't know what the rules are. I do know the burden and pressure is relentless. Good luck

Oh, thanks for explaining, that sounds like a great arrangement.

We are a small family though. Brother would be willing to sleep over half the time, but he doesn’t work. I work full time and I’ve had to put my own health issues first for a while and make some lifestyle changes, so nights not an option for me.

Does your dad have capacity if he has he can choose where he lives and he and your brother can arrange a stsirlift. What poa duties are you doing at the moment, if he lacks capacity then a residential carehome may be safer looking longterm.

The SW is going to see Dad to find out his wishes. I doubt she’ll discuss the cost though, will she? I do know it’s a factor for my father though, having to be moved by the council once his money runs out is not something he wants.

Whilst you should do what is in your dad's best interests it shouldn't be at the detriment of your own health. Don't be made to feel guilty for saying so. Also if your brother owns the proposed new home then he is responsible for maintenance and put in stair lift etc. That should not fall to you. Why did your dad initially move in with your brother?