Dad wants to live in my brother’s rental house. How realistic is this?

[Denimes5]

My father is currently living in my brother’s house, paying him the full government rent a room scheme amount of £625 a month.

As expected, after a short time, he’s now decided he wants Dad out in the next few weeks.

Dad uses a zimmer, has a full package of care, has a urinary catheter, wears slip pads, often doesn’t get to the toilet in time to open his bowels and so there are faecal accidents.

He gets up at night to use the toilet a couple of times and my brother has to help him.

He doesn’t seem to have much recent memory at all and yet his recent brain scan didn’t show any dementia.

My brother wants to move him into his vacant rental house and charge the full market rental value.

There is no downstairs toilet in this house and I, as POA, would be expected to put a stairlift in.

My father says my brother has shown him round and he would like to live there.

The social worker says it’s actually worth exploring the funding options for this as the council might decide to contribute.

Dad would need a live in carer with support overnight. The cost would be extortionate. Then utilities, council tax, a cleaner, food, no doubt.

I am taking Dad to see a care home tomorrow as I think it might be more realistic.

How likely is it that my Dad’s wish to live in my brother’s rental house will actually be fulfilled?

I have my reservations about my brother’s plans but as POA, I have to consider all views and options.

I’ve spoken to Dad about how quickly his own funds would run out but he forgets.

I’m finding the whole POA situation a stressful place, providing so much support without any support.

So, SW saw Dad yesterday, to complete the capacity assessment. She has confirmed that Dad doesn’t have capacity to make decisions about his care and residence.

That's good it's done, now you can make a decision in his best interest. I'd talk to the sw and carers, ask them exactly how much care he needs then look at carehomes, he won't be safe at your brothers, you can look around and arrange respite for now.

Gosh OP I have no advice whatsoever, I too am here to learn from those who have trodden this path before us but my gosh I feel for you 💐💐

Well the care home manager has just rung to say my brother really liked the care home and thinks the best interests meeting may not be so difficult after all.

Only thing is, she rang at the same time that my daughter messaged to say that Dad has tried to pull his catheter out again, there’s blood and no urine in the bag. They’re on their way back to A&E with him.

Of course, the care home manager then said that it might well be that another setting would be more suitable for him.

At least the capacity assessment is now done, but it looks like the best interests meeting will be delayed yet again.

I thought I had a few days breathing space ahead, but there’s always the prospect of an another night in trolley bay to keep things moving.

Just breathe. These are hiccups along the way I'm afraid.

Oh dear, they may just flush the catheter or put a new one in so he can be discharged. Are you going to look at carehomes yourself as poa, once he's over this will you need another best interest meeting? The carehome manager can visit him in hospital, he won't be safe to go home.

Maybe they might consider a supra public catheter if he keeps pulling it out, why did he have the catheter put in?

Has he been admitted into hospital? If so before he is discharged home request a full care assessment and say he can't return to your brothers house as it would be an unsafe discharge.

Your brother's plan is for you to deal with this sort of thing for the rest of DF's life, and without DF's needs making a dent in DB's inheritance. Laser focus on what DF needs, and not a moment's consideration for any bleating from DB. Stand firm.

Op has poa, their dad lacks capacity so,she needs to make decisions on his behalf, in his beat interests, the brother doesn't need to,do anything if he doesn't want to. There has already been one best interest meeting and a package of care which has now failed, he has had a capacity assessment, all,that needs doing now is a,refusal,to discharge him back to the brother, areange amcarehome manager to come and assessh him all the staff to keep a diary, the hospital discharge Co ordinator and poa need to arrange his future placememt even if that involved a stay in hospital until it's arranged.

I know - but OP's brother is pressuring her to do otherwise. I'm just saying - don't cave! Brother is thinking about himself not his father, and OP shouldn't be swayed by any fussing / whining from DB.

I think the brother has seen a carehome

Well it actually wasn’t that difficult to navigate through this meeting to get the result I wanted for a care home to be Dad’s residence.

I have to say, I did feel far more prepared after reading what everyone’s had to say.

SW has emailed the care home manager and I have asked her to visit Dad next week to do her assessment.

Well done op. I agree with your decesion. Is it a nursing home they are more set up to manage cathater care.

No, it’s residential. We discussed that with the care home manager. Catheter care can be managed in the residential area.

That's great it's all sorted, is he still in hospital, a residential home can easily look after a catheter.

I think the best thing you can do for your dDad given his toileting issues is find him the best care home you can. When my Aunt needed to go into a care home me and my sisters researched and visited every care home in a 30 mile radius of her home. We spoke to people visiting their loved ones there too asking if they had ever had any concerns with to be careful re eived. We found my Aunt the best one we could and all sisters agreed it was the best one. It had lovely grounds she could go into for a walk or in a wheelchair, a hairdresser came every week which we knew our Aunt would like, residents were taken out on a minibus 3 times a week to places they might like and there were good social events put on for residents and varied from Bingo, choir, quiz night, games evening and various little clubs like gardening club and knitting and crochet club. My Aunt in her late 80's with mild dementia made several friends there was happy there until she had a massive heart attack and died. Spend your time finding the best care home you can and make sure your Dad can take some of his own things in there with him.

There are different types of care home. My grandad moved into one where he had his own contained flat, but add on support (cleaner, meals and nursing care) were available if required. Then as his care needs advanced he moved into a room within the home. If you were to explore the private rental/live in carer option further, I would look at a different property to that which your brother is offering, as it’s not suitable (he needs a bungalow or toilet on both floors). If your brother is charging market rate it makes sense to shop around.

Yes, he’s home now.

@caringcarer I agree. I’ve looked at inspection reports and the home I’ve chosen is currently excellent in all areas. Everyone in the family likes it.

I just hope the care home manager thinks Dad is suitable. Dad’s memory is poor but he’s consistently hung on to the idea of this particular home being wonderful. He can’t wait to get there, it’s comical. He’s so enthusiastic about the place.

There are lots of activities and he was told that he can take them or leave them and that is fine. They will get to know and understand his needs.

@crazymommaclub This sounds like the extra care option I was interested in for Dad. Unfortunately, I think it’s too late for that now, as is living in his own flat. He needs more support and a flat with round the clock care wouldn’t be feasible.

As you suggest, capacity isn't all or nothing. A person can have capacity to decide what to eat for lunch, but not to take the right medicines at the right time. They can have capacity to book a holiday, yet not to perform all the steps to get to the destination. Capacity to manage investments doesn't ensure capacity to handle shopping.

With important decisions like where and how to live in declining old age, self-insight's a very big issue. It doesn't really sound like your dad understands his current vulnerabilities and care needs, or has a realistic view of his prospects. This means he lacks the capacity to determine what circumstances will be best for himself. This is what you have the POA for.

I'm not sure why everyone feels a capacity assessment is so important at this stage. It could help you to have confidence in making decisions for him - but if you ask for one, I'd recommend talking this through with whoever conducts it.

We kind of led Mum through it by developing a conversation with the practitioner, drilling down into stuff like "What medicines did you take this morning?" after she'd breezily asserted that the reminders we'd put in place were working marvellously. (It turned out that not only could she not cope with holding the thoughts long enough to take the damn meds, she'd gone blind and concealed it very well!) Some assessors won't allow this, though, so you have to wiggle as much as needed to get the information through.

Hardly anybody wants to 'go onto a home'. Most people improve significantly when they do, thanks to having their hygiene, medical needs and diet properly administered as well as the benefits of human company and activities.

That’s such a positive that he is enthusiastic about it. Here’s hoping it all goes smoothly. It’ll be a big relief for you.

Your brother’s house is totally unsuitable for your dad. Your brother sounds as if he’s just out to get money from your dad.

Could you talk to Age Concern about the best options?

I’d say that a care home would be best. Your dad could fund it for as long as possible. He’d be safe there too.