Anyone successfully done the ‘time to downsize’ conversation?

[SockFluffInTheBath]

Just that really. Pondering taking this on and tips would be appreciated please.

PIL are in their 80s with a big old house and an acre or so of garden. They’ve not been having visitors because of Covid and when we were allowed in recently I was shocked at the state of the house. They need a cleaner, a decorator, and maybe a builder. DH did some repairs to the extension roof but it needs more. Between him and BIL they already do the lawns and hedges, tree surgeon coming out to go the big stuff. They refuse to have anyone in (tree surgeon is only allowed because of structural damage to the house.

They live nearby and popping prescriptions and milk in is one thing but neither of us are going to take on sorting and running their house. How does DH broach the idea of downsizing?

Following as in a similar situation. PIL are in their 70s with failing health but have a 3 storey house with a garden that they don't use all of and can't cope with.

We live a couple of hours away so it's difficult to help.

They have finally employed a cleaner though!

Failed miserably on many occasions across a 10-15 year campaign.
Crucially, failed on getting POA.
DM with dementia was eventually sectioned. Shortly afterwards, DF (83) died in an avoidable accident in their house. No access to their banking or financials. Had to apply for Guardianship. DM was detained for the whole court process (seven months) in a community hospital as we had no power to have her released to a care home. All our worries and concerns played out in real life.

If you know of someone locally whose parents refused and the inevitable happened, bring that example to your parents. Even better if they know them.

If it's not their idea, and they haven't seen the merit already, it's well nigh impossible.

Make them aware of how bad the house is getting, how you cannot take it on, and how else they can invest their money. And how desperate families are for family homes - but that invariably falls on deaf ears. I have tried to broach this topic with a family member too, and all they kept saying was ‘it’s making me money though’.

In reality, the house is costing more in upkeep and bills and is becoming a liability.

Have a look at some decent private wealth investors and see if they could be tempted to put their money in there instead.

Total failure here. I tried the line of "do you see yourself living here in ten years time?". Her already limited mobility meant she couldn't reliably get up the steep steps to road level and the bus stop, she couldn't get down the back steps to the garden and with the only toilet being upstairs it meant that she couldn't always get there in time. Although she agreed that it wouldn't be suitable long term she absolutely refused to look at any alternatives. After a series of falls she was deemed to be unsafe at home and discharged from hospital to a care home.

In your case, could they not have a gardener, cleaner, builder and decorator in? It doesn't have to be family that does the work. The challenge is if they can't/won't see that there is anything that needs doing.

Total failure here despite having to move my dad's bed downstairs. He is now bathed by his carers as there's no downstairs shower and they won't get a stairlift. Both parents are adamant that they'll stay in the house one of them dies so I can see them getting to a point soon where they're both living in the downstairs of their 4 bedroom house.

They currently have carers twice a day plus a cleaner and gardener. And me doing hospital/doctor/dentist appointments, DIY, shopping etc.

I did find two flats closer to me that had onsite care and one in their home town which was a perfect 2 bed flat with a wetroom that they could have just moved straight into. Printed off the details for all of them but they refused to entertain the idea of moving and instead I'm stuck with a 50 min drive to get to them when I'm needed.

Tried and failed to get my parents to move to be near to me and downsize. Failed as DF wouldn't move. DF died suddenly and left DM (for whom he was carer) on her own. The s*1t really hit the fan then as none of us lived near her. Result was 2 1/2 years of nightmare for me & DB trying to keep DM safe in her home. She did however relent on the 'no strangers in the house' as she needed carers and she did employ a cleaner.
PIL thankfully took their own decision to move and downsize although their idea of downsizing is not what most people would think! FIL is no longer with us and MIL is insisting on staying in her 3 bed house with stairs and steps all over the place and a 1 acre garden in spite of being 94 and with very poor eyesight. She does employ a cleaner, gardener and handyman now though so not too reliant on family.

Posts from PPs send shivers down my spine in relation to my very unfit and increasingly unwell, and very unsensible, in-laws.
They are early 70s but more or less immobile, just managing to get to the car on the driveway, but no further.

They live in the middle of nowhere, in a location that they retired to 10 years ago without any links to the area (the country dream! 🤔) Both kids live several hours away.
Their house is a renovation project that they've barely made progress on in 10 years. But they still think they're capable of finishing it. It's seriously cluttered and dirty, there's mouldy food in the fridge.
There was a once-a-day bus service when they moved in, but it's been scrapped, so they're totally stranded without a car. There's no shop or pub in the village.
They refuse to even accept that they are ageing, let alone have an adult conversation about their finances, options for old age care, Power of Attorney and so on.
It's going to be hell, with no resolution in sight, other than a bad fall killing them both (which would obviously be devastating).

Thanks everyone, I’m so sorry for everyone going through it with elderly parents (I know we’re early days and dread to think what will come).

DH and BIL do have POA for both PIL, FIL pushed it a few years ago in a moment of getting organised.

They bought the place with the intention of retiring there, it is a bungalow but it’s rural and FIL’s driving is deteriorating. They’re desperate to pass it on to BIL who is quite happy to indulge them as it’s prime building land. Me and DH are ok with BIL getting everything, if they downsized and left the new house and left over funds to him that would be fine, there’s no angle there at all.

I have no idea how their finances are. They’re not too badly off but I don’t think they’re wealthy. DH could broach getting people in if they refuse to consider moving.

Yes: 2 years ago my mother was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer’s. She and my father were 5 hours’ drive away and I have several young children. Their home was too big and unmanageable and was falling apart around them. I managed to arrange power of attorney and deal with a complicated financial situation to buy them a bungalow 15 minutes drive away, which is such a relief. To be honest, I talked them into it and have no regrets. Now I can pop in and help out whenever there is a crisis, large or small. Mind you, that can be a double-edged sword and I find my father phoning frequently panicking about very minor things, wanting me to drop whatever I’m doing to go and sort out his every issue immediately.

The moving process was a nightmare though. Despite me sending them boxes via Amazon and asking every couple of weeks how their decluttering and packing was going (yes! Making good progress! Of course we will be ready!!), my husband, my eldest daughter and my brother turned up with a hired van on their moving date and barely a box was packed. It was unbelievable. They slogged away all Friday evening and Saturday and took across the necessary stuff, but had to leave a lot behind. They had to take time off work to go back a second time to deal with the rest. I think they made 4 trips to the dump in the end. It was impossible for me to go through to help pack up with my children in school and a young baby at home, but I was able to get their new home sorted for them at this end. If I hadn’t done it all, they would definitely not have budged from their big mouldy house, and the inheritance that came to my mum just a few weeks before completing the house purchase (most went on the new house) would likely have been blown on odd stuff rather than going to make their lives more comfortable.

The PoA conversation was very easy with mum: she was very willing to grant it to me and my sister although it took many months once all the forms had been submitted for it to be granted. Part of the difficulty in getting them to make a decision on moving was that some of my siblings are in a different part of the country and my parents refused to choose where to settle as they claimed it would look like favouritism if they were closer to one rather than another. I think it was more inertia and both of them have really lost the ability to weigh up pros and cons to arrive at decisions.

I did have some conversations asking them what would happen if there was a crisis and all their children were hours and hours away and couldn’t help. But it really came down to me taking the initiative, looking for properties, viewing them and telling my parents what I thought. My husband backed me up fully and his opinion as a man had more weight with my father at least! There isn’t an easy way to go about this kind of process and it was and is a huge burden. I hope you find a way to help them help themselves before any crisis occurs.

Failing miserably here

DM does want a bungalow and had a fall downstairs earlier this year

However, she has a wishlist of things that are not necessary, some more than she has now in her 4 bed semi and the like of which she could never afford

I have tried to get her head round the fact that she's not looking for her dream home, she would never in a million years buy the one she lives in if she was buying now (huge list of issues!) and she just needs something more suitable than current

Every option we suggest is shot down with a myriad of reasons

Her DP is 10 years younger and very change averse

I am not envisioning it will happen any time soon

To my utter astonishment - yes. We've just been through this process with my parents. DSis and I basically went on holiday with them for a week, and pursued it relentlessly. It felt a bit cruel, as DM was quite upset by the whole thing, though luckily DF got more on board. They're mid-70s, so not really elderly, but health problems meant that looking after the big house and garden was difficult, and the biggest factor for DM was the lack of public transport and the fact that she really wanted to give up her car.

The key was to latch on to the couple of main benefits and just repeat them over and over again, very calmly and patiently. DM's memory is starting to go, and she has anxiety, so there were lots of very cyclical conversations which made us want to scream. The other key was that we very fortunately found them the perfect house - which made it harder for DM to resist. The actual process was very intense and stressful, because every little conveyancing niggle became a huge drama and a reason to pull out, and I thought it would never actually happen. But amazingly, only 4 months after the initial conversation, they moved.

A word of warning - I don't think DM will ever quite forgive us for making her move away from the family home - she misses it hugely, and she blames us. Which is a bit sad. But the benefits are so incredibly obvious, and the consequences of them staying (esp if anything happened to DF) would have been far worse.

Gosh @putitonaplate I just can’t imagine how that conversation would go. My parents live in a rural house that they literally built themselves. My mum might be sensible enough to see the advantages of moving (Where they are had no public transport and no services at all) but my dad would never agree. Moving for no reason other than that they are “too old” to stay where they are? He would never forgive us if we tried what you did!

The only carrot for lots of older people might be moving closer to an adult child - but nobody in our family actually wants that - we are not a “drop in / tea every Friday / visit every Sunday” kind of family. Plus i live abroad and my sister lives city centre.

I know what you're saying, but I think it's possible to accentuate the positives, by focusing on what they can do once they're older, not what they can't - that's certainly what we tried to do, as kindly as possible. At the old house, mum was increasingly dependent on dad to take her anywhere, because she loathed driving and would have stopped very soon regardless - and he's out quite a lot. Now, she can walk to the library, the (very nice) shops, the cafes, the hairdresser, or even to the station to get the train up to London for the day, which she loves. Before, she'd look out at her garden deteriorating gradually, because she just wasn't able to tackle it. Now, she's got a nice but very manageable garden where she can make it look lovely with very little physical effort. We just tried to keep reminding her of those positives. But even though the case for downsizing was getting stronger day by day, DM was if anything becoming more reluctant (partly as her health and energy started to wane), and DSis and I had a strong sense that it was now or never - that if we couldn't get them to move now, then they never would, until a crisis struck.

My IL’s moved to a bungalow out of town with a large garden, one bus a day, but at that point he could drive. Fast forward to when he could no longer do the garden but wouldn’t pay for a gardener, so DH spent nearly all day there on his days off. Then FIL had his licence removed so DH then had to drive them round on days off too.
Then we had years of bad behaviour, ending in SS getting involved and forcing the remaining one into a home. Now DH still has to maintain the house as it won’t be sold until MIL dies.
Absolute nightmare, and has impacted on family time and our relationship.

Mostly successful.
PIL lived rurally in an area with no facilities in walking distance and virtually no public transport. Approx 3 hours drive away, no other family.
They had an idyllic active retirement there. But hitting their late 70's we started having conversations about the future. My Mum, albeit much younger was in poor health but lived near us. We were able to talk to them about wills and POA which they did put into place.
They finally decided to move in their mid 80's and refused to let DH have any involvement. FIL I think wanted to prove he was still capable. Packing their house was a nightmare. So much stuff. Parents borderline hoarders. DH very stressed as his parents needed a lot of help by this point and were a long way away.
They declined to move nearer to us and wanted to stay in the same area but in a town. The first time I saw their new house I thought, nice but tricky if either of them get mobility issues. Turned out MIL was already struggling with stairs.
They lived there fairly happily for the next few years but FIL admitted that he had made a mistake and wished they had moved nearer. Unfortunately it took him being terminally ill to realise why living nearer would have been helpful and whilst we tried to facilitate them moving (looking at renting while selling their house) his illness was swift and he died.
We then had an extremely difficult few months/years when it quickly became apparent that MIL also had dementia much more advanced than they had admitted and she couldn't live (or be left) alone. Then Covid happened!

There’s a theme here of retiring to the countryside! I can see why it sounds like a good idea but the reality of non-existent or rubbish public transport, no deliveroo (sort of option of one hot meal a day), and no decent facilities is actually pretty grim when you’re unable to drive. I had the conversation a few years ago with DH on a trip to Edinburgh of it being the ideal type of place to retire (buses, trains, lots to do both indoors and outdoors), and shops everywhere you look, and after a few minutes the penny dropped and he’s onboard- having previously wanted to stay in our God’s waiting room of a village.

I've lived rurally for thirty years and I'll be retiring into town. It's fine if you can drive but otherwise it's an hour on the bus to the hospital and they run every hour (except when they don't). I'll be looking to live somewhere with decent public transport rather than lovely views.

Yes.
My mum. 76.
Died died 8 years ago and her health has declined a great deal since.
During 2020 and the 1st lockdown she really struggled. 3 bed house. Front and back garden.
I gently broached her selling up and looking at sheltered accommodation.
At first it was a no.
Then she realised that she already only lived in 4 rooms and was struggling on the stairs.(I'm pretty sure she fell more than once)
So, she sold up and moved into a ground floor flat in a sheltered accommodation complex literally 2 minutes walk from where she lived.
It's been great and I'm very grateful to her for doing this whilst she could.
Heating bill tiny (communal heating)
Emergency call buttons in each room, wet room.
We decorated throughout for her and its lovely.
I'm so very sorry for those of you going through such difficulties. My pils will be the same, sadly :(

I've started to gift copies of The Gentle Art of Swedish Death Cleaning by Margareta Magnusson along with birthday cards. It's a little volume of profound good sense. Suitable for any age group, not necessarily the elderly. De-clutter when you are fit is the key.
Slowly working through my own home. Did our POA at 55. I'm absolutely in the same camp as Knota.
Sympathies to everyone with friends and family who are in denial about the ageing process.

Success story here.

Mum lived in a 3-bed house 180 miles away. When she was in her 90s and things were getting difficult I did some local research and worked out what she could afford if she came to live in my town. Next time she came to stay I told her we were off to the garden centre, but really took her to see a sheltered housing bungalow nearby. Initially she was pretty po-faced but she had to be polite in front of the estate agent. I presented it as 'just a thought' 'something to think about' 'if you'd been thinking about it...' etc. She thought about it, we looked at other sorts of places, and by the end of the visit the Plans were Laid.

Chapter Two - decluttering and selling her home...

Failed miserably. As a result my MIL is now in her second year of being bed bound in her tiny, almost windowless front room. Her house is full of crap, it's close to hoarding. Full of stuff she bought for her grandkids literally 10 years ago and forgot she had, and unopened QVC deliveries. She still refuses to move.

My elderly ma decided she needed to move about a year ago and had very mixed feelings about leaving her house - and had no energy to do the actual move which means all the decluttering has fallen to the rest of the family. However she has now moved and is having the time of her life in a retirement complex with masses of activities laid on, daily meals provided and more social life than she has had in years. She has not yet said she wished she had moved years ago but I think that is the reality.

Additional bonus, where before she was tottery, frail, slow and wary of going out, as living in an area with nearby schools surrounded by younger people and lots of traffic, she is now active and sprightly (because surrounded by people on mobility scooters or walking frames and in a safe, level site) which has boosted her ego no end (not that it needed a boost)…

My Dad was in a large 4 bed rented house, with a huge garden. His eyesight was starting to fail (diabetes) and it was in a hell of state...... plus he couldn't afford the gas/electricity to keep it warm. Thankfully there was a small crisis in that a bathroom had a major leak and was going to cost the landlord a small fortune to sort out as they'd done no maintenance in the 20 years that Dad had lived there (and paid their mortgage off on). So the LL decided to sell as they weren't returning to the UK. It made Dad have to move out, I cried with relief when he got the letter as I was so stressed over it.

Mind you, he refused to pack or downsize any of the stuff he has (he's a low lever hoarder) so moving him was an absolute nightmare and it's now all crammed into a tiny 2 bed flat..... he's been warned twice about it by his current letting agent so that's the current battle. We also had to guarantor his rent which DH wasn't very impressed about.

Family members did with my parents and in-laws. As with many people one person was resistant each time and the long-term impact of this has been significant for the other one. I'm angry.

With my parents I totally failed at this. In fact it just made them go and buy a bigger house. with MIl I changed tack. I pressed her to help her neighbours (also v elderly) with shopping etc. she refused, so I pointed out that it was totally unfair to expect them or us to help her. We were driving cross country from wales to east anglia at the time on a weekly basis. Her home was also needing major building work due to lack of maintenance. Dh took her to see
various new builds and she saw the light. She went into a sheltered housing type place and had care on site and we could at least relax over maintenance and nighttime falls etc. Dh had a few years of being her son rather than a panicked carer. (I was the hated dil who made her move - small price to pay!)