Anyone successfully done the ‘time to downsize’ conversation?

[SockFluffInTheBath]

Just that really. Pondering taking this on and tips would be appreciated please.

PIL are in their 80s with a big old house and an acre or so of garden. They’ve not been having visitors because of Covid and when we were allowed in recently I was shocked at the state of the house. They need a cleaner, a decorator, and maybe a builder. DH did some repairs to the extension roof but it needs more. Between him and BIL they already do the lawns and hedges, tree surgeon coming out to go the big stuff. They refuse to have anyone in (tree surgeon is only allowed because of structural damage to the house.

They live nearby and popping prescriptions and milk in is one thing but neither of us are going to take on sorting and running their house. How does DH broach the idea of downsizing?

[Solasum]

My father passed recently, at home, a full ten years after I suggested that perhaps if they really were going to insist on staying where they were, they should consider some adaptations to the downstairs that would make a downstairs wet room and kitchenette possible, which they ignored.

this meant for the last month of his life he could only wash with flannels, and had to use a commode, which he hated.

some possible ammunition for those with parents rurally; what would happen if you need district nurses to come in? My father’s final days (15 mins from a hospital) would have been far far worse had the district nurses been further away and not been able to get to him quickly to give him pain relief, within 30 mins every time.
he collapsed once and had to wait 9 hours for an ambulance, lying on the floor as my elderly mother and equally elderly neighbour could not move him. It is unlikely the situation will improve ambulance wise in the coming years.
He fell also trying to go to the bathroom in the night and again had to lie on cold floor unable to move until nurses could rescue him. He was extremely lucky that this didn’t land him back in hospital. It is much harder to get the hospital to agree to discharge if the home is very unsuitable. In the end my father was stuck in one room only.

Once a suitable amount of time has passed, I am going to attempt to have the conversation again with my mother.

Good luck to all facing this

[MakingNBaking]

I've had to do it twice with ILs.
Once when FIL died and MIL was left in a countryside bungalow with no family within three hours.
Then again, 20 years later, when the house she'd moved to became j unsuitable. Now she's in a retirement flat and loving it.
It helped that all her dc were singing from the same hymn sheet. It took time, clever little remarks (just enough to start her thinking) and a lot of pretending everything was her idea in the first place.
She's also fairly comically financially naive - she pays a whacking monthly service charge in her flat but that includes her heating so she thinks she's getting a bargain. And because she's 'not paying for it' (🙄) she lives in a tropical rainforest climate, 28 degrees all the way! Mind you, the company, the helpline, the activities in the communal lounge, fish n chips on a Friday night, the general peace of mind the rest of us have, that's all well worth the monthly service charge.

[declutteringmymind]

I had to be blunt with my MIL.
I told her gently that if she moved now she has a lot more options and autonomy rather than her sons having to choose for her when the house wasn't right for her needs. The house wasn't adaptable to her needs and too far away from her favourite son.

She moved a year later.

[SockFluffInTheBath]

Thanks @MereDintofPandiculation they’re old films (some never watched but ‘donated’ to them by other relatives when clearing their own tat out) and children’s programmes- keeping for the great-grandchildren (my DC are 15 and 16) 😱 we’ve already had their wedding video transferred to dvd. The newspapers, well I really don’t know other than being kept for fire lighting in winter (do they could go out in a box in the shed). Need to ask. I’m going over to assault the weeds this weekend and plant some annuals, and I plan to try a gentle ‘clear some stuff to make it easier to clean’ chat.

[MereDintofPandiculation]

You may find they don’t have piles of newspapers and VHS, they may have lots of information that must be preserved. There are places that’ll take VHS tapes and transfer the contents to DVD or other much more compact form. Good idea too as media deteriorate, so makes sense to transfer contents before that happens

[SockFluffInTheBath]

@SeaToSki that’s fantastic. Sounds so obvious when you see it written down like that 😁 I think it might be a good plan of attack for PIL house- they have piles (I mean many big piles) of newspapers, vhs (no tape player), billions of ornaments… I’ve said to DH I’m not going in cleaning purely because there is so much crap it would take all day and I would be lucky to get half of it done, I’m not losing my entire weekends to cleaning someone else’s house. If the clutter was gone it would be so much faster.

[SeaToSki]

We have managed it but by the skin of our teeth. I think it was me trying to see it through their eyes that made it possible in the end. Elderly people often have greatly reduced mental processing speeds so find it very difficult to think things through at the same speed as us and hold multiple concepts in their minds at the same time. so you have to take on thing at a time, and slowly.
when thinking about moving house the mental hill to climb becomes immense, so instead of tackling the problem, many older people become stubborn and just say I wont move..its not because they want to stay necesarily, its because they cant work out how to move in their own minds.
We started by not even mentioning moving, we helped them sort their stuff with the idea of making cleaning easier. Some stuff was boxed and put tidily in the attic, some was given to gc (or boxed and sent to their houses for their later use). Some stuff was donated for needy people. Some stuff was ‘donated ’ ..to the dump…. Some stuff was sent to be repaired but then was found to be ‘unrepairable’ (3 hoovers) so wasnt returned.
Once the house was emptier, we talked them into a one time clean to freshen it up. This was so successful that we talked them into a monthly clean for ‘the big things’ and we went to take them out for the day while it happened. We also helped them write a list of what they wanted done on the big clean (as that was too much to process)
We then talked them in to ‘shutting down’ a couple of rooms in the house to simplify. So then that stuff got packed up and stored. At this point they were just living in 3/4 rooms so then when we started to chat about how nice it would be to live in the town center close to us, it seemed like it was possible for them (in their minds) to achieve it. They had also seen us helping them over the years, so really knew they could lean on us to just ‘get stuff done’. It was like their brains knew they could just hand over the reins safely.
we also got POA done along the way-with healthcare as well as finances. We talked about what they wanted at their funerals and how much life extending care they wanted if they were ill. This was all done from the attitude of making it easy for us in a time when we would be upset.
It was a long long term process, but is working out (ish) for the moment

[CrotchetyQuaver]

I never did and it was too late by the time my DM needed single floor living. No downstairs bathroom or way of creating one in a hurry, cluttered to the brim so she went in a nursing home which actually turned out to be an excellent move. I got her in one in the same village so that dad could get to see her easily even if he had to give up driving. They both benefited from the social life up there, saw couples and old friends they hadn't seen for years as illnesses and frailty had made it too difficult and had a great time until covid and the home was locked down. They had lovely home made cakes every day which seemed to encourage visitors lol. Mum died sept 2020.

[3peassuit]

I’m the parent in this situation. We live in a house far too big for our needs and costs a fortune to maintain with a large garden that’s crying out for children to enjoy. We are still driving but should that change we would be well and truly stuck. I would downsize tomorrow but DH insists that the only way he’s leaving will be in a box. Any tips on how I can get to change his mind would be much appreciated.

[jackstini]

@WhatHaveIFound - have you looked into a disabled facilities grant to get them a downstairs bathroom? (if they will need one permanently)
It doesn't get them move but might take away one problem
www.gov.uk/disabled-facilities-grants

[MereDintofPandiculation]

DH & I are planning on retiring at 65, at that point we are selling up (3 bed detached) and moving to the coast to buy a flat, with a balcony. I hope you’ve done your research! Many people have the same idea, so local Social Services can become overburdened by the sheer number of elderly people. Some of the S coast seaside resorts have the worst levels of deprivation in the country.

[StCharlotte]

DH & I are planning on retiring at 65, at that point we are selling up (3 bed detached) and moving to the coast to buy a flat, with a balcony.

We dont have kids so need to future proof ourselves.

Similar position except after years of to-ing and fro-ing we've finally decided to stay put as our house, whilst sadly not by the coast, is perfectly situated in the middle of town. Doctor's surgery, pub, shops etc literally two minutes' walk away. Main bathroom is downstairs and we'll get a starlift when stairs become tricky and pay for cleaners etc. Also although we have no DC, we do have a local support network.

[dramalamma]

Lots of negative stories - and I can understand parents not wanting to admit they're getting old. We've - so far! Had a much better experience - dps live in a 4 storey house and mum is struggling so I took the line that dad had to do it for mum and then just pushed all the positive aspects of moving. In the end they're building on our land so they're close to us - not possible for everyone but makes it so much easier for me to deal with them as they get older and means they can stay at home longer.... it was a frank conversation and they needed time to go away and digest but they came back excited in the end. Mil on the other hand refuses to leave her rural house that is only accessible by car because she has too many memories of fil there - it's a really difficult line to judge but it can go well too.

[EdithStourton]

DH and I discuss this quite often. We've not even retired yet but we don't want to do to our DC what MIL did to hers.

She stayed in a huge, delapidated, house full of decades of accumulated junk, and the burden of care that fell on her children was huge. It caused many a marital row when DH came back from trying to deal with it all in a filthy temper that got taken out on me (who had been minding DC and dogs meanwhile).

In the end she fell ill and it was made clear to her that she had live somewhere adapted to her needs with plenty of care available. Even then she resisted the inevitable. The stress and hassle this imposed on her DC was huge.

I plan to sort out POA in my mid-60s and while I do want to pursue the rural dream for 10-15 years (we live fairly rurally already) both DH and I expect to move back close to shops and GP when our health dictates.

[Ilikewinter]

I watched MIL struggle her final years in a 3 bed terrace, she couldnt manage the stairs and or the steps from the front door. Eventually she had sponge washes and lived in the front room...... I used to feel so angry as she could have house swapped into a lovely warden aided flat but she refused time and time again.

DH & I are planning on retiring at 65, at that point we are selling up (3 bed detached) and moving to the coast to buy a flat, with a balcony.

We dont have kids so need to future proof ourselves.

[SockFluffInTheBath]

@mumda

And what do you do when they have moved to a bungalow in a sensible place and hate it?

If the BIL plans to get everything then without sounding heartless make him look after them now. They might listen to him of that's how they feel about him.

He’s the one they’ve allowed in all this time (golden child) so he’s seen it deteriorate and done nothing. He lives about an hour away, comes once a week to do a bit of Man Jobs in the garden (stuff with petrol engined machines) then runs off again. He doesn’t care about the state of the house because he won’t live in it himself when he gets it, and he’s too selfish and immature to care about them or anyone else. Can you tell I’m not a fan?

DH can’t bring himself to have the talk so it looks like we’ll be taking it on.

[MereDintofPandiculation]

So many leave it until it becomes a problem rather than preemptively planning. Depends on your relationship with the house. I’m a gardener - a lot of my life is involved in the joy of tending plants. Leaving my garden while I’m still able to work in it would be depriving myself of something that brings value to my life. But a friend of mine says her house matters little to her, she’s hardly ever in it.

of course, preemptively planning can include thinking about the help you need to stay in the house longer. Desperately trying to stop the clock and insist you can do everything you used to be able to do leads to chaos.

[paddingtonstares]

We live in a council bungalow. We had a 3 bed house but asked to downsize once it was clear DC wouldn't bounce home again , the council fell over backwards to help us. DH is older than me(early 70s) with failing health so I decided to future plan for when I am on my own. (I'm mid 50s)
If you own your own property though I can understand how overwhelming the process of selling/ buying could seem to someone who really needs to.
So many leave it until it becomes a problem rather than preemptively planning.

[mumda]

And what do you do when they have moved to a bungalow in a sensible place and hate it?

If the BIL plans to get everything then without sounding heartless make him look after them now. They might listen to him of that's how they feel about him.

[Soontobe60]

@ImplementingTheDennisSystem

Like some previous posters, DH and I have decided that we want to move, at 60, to a 2-bed flat in our current town centre, with a balcony (and no garden).
We currently live in a cul-de-sac of detached 4-bed houses and more are owned by retirees than not. Many of them struggle to keep on top of them - they need a cleaner, gardener, window cleaner - or the gardens have just totally gone to seed. It's a full time job to keep ours in great shape and I don't want that burden when I'm older.

I’d be very wary of making such a big jump in size. We’ve downsized to a 2 bed house, which has enough space for the 2 of us to have 2 sitting rooms so we do t argue over the TV viewing 😂. It has a smallish back garden that we’ve had redone with stone paving instead of lawn, and have got lots of pots and a nice seating area. Fortunately our garden overlooks the woods so sitting out makes me feel like I’m surrounded by nature!

[Soontobe60]

@Mum5net

Failed miserably on many occasions across a 10-15 year campaign.
Crucially, failed on getting POA.
DM with dementia was eventually sectioned. Shortly afterwards, DF (83) died in an avoidable accident in their house. No access to their banking or financials. Had to apply for Guardianship. DM was detained for the whole court process (seven months) in a community hospital as we had no power to have her released to a care home. All our worries and concerns played out in real life.

If you know of someone locally whose parents refused and the inevitable happened, bring that example to your parents. Even better if they know them.

If it's not their idea, and they haven't seen the merit already, it's well nigh impossible.

My stepfather is currently in a care home having been discharged from a long hospital stay. It was the hospital social worker who arranged the transfer and he has now been assessed by the DOLS team as not having capacity, but requires to be ‘detained’ for his own safety.
it doesn’t need a relative or someone with POA or Guardianship for this to happen, the social care system is geared up for such eventualities.

[ImplementingTheDennisSystem]

Like some previous posters, DH and I have decided that we want to move, at 60, to a 2-bed flat in our current town centre, with a balcony (and no garden).
We currently live in a cul-de-sac of detached 4-bed houses and more are owned by retirees than not. Many of them struggle to keep on top of them - they need a cleaner, gardener, window cleaner - or the gardens have just totally gone to seed. It's a full time job to keep ours in great shape and I don't want that burden when I'm older.

[MereDintofPandiculation]

I’m going to be on my own within the next couple of years. One decision I have made: I will stay here (if I can afford it, and I think I can). I need the solace of the place I love. Five years down the line, who knows? But for now…