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Original poster

KS2 - LEVEL 6???

86 replies

jampot · 28/02/2004 22:30

My daughter is apparently being tutored at school for level 6 at KS2. However, I understand from a website that level 6 extension papers finished last year. Can any of the teachers explain how level 6 can be achieved? Sorry to be ignorant.

OP posts:
Janh · 28/02/2004 22:43

Level 5 is fairly common in Y6 - level 6 papers have been available in previous years and can be passed in English - Maths is harder because it covers things not normally taught at primary school.

When ds1 (now in Y11) took his SATs, several of his year took Maths and English at Level 6, but one of the boys who achieved Level 6 in English at 11 subsequently only achieved level 5 at 14, so go figure!

popsycal · 28/02/2004 22:44

jampot there are no level 6 extension papers anymore as of last year...let me know if you want more info....
I am a year 6 teacher and head of year six

popsycal · 28/02/2004 22:48

Oh sorry - didn't read your post fully.

the extension papers stopped as of last year. So in SATs, pupils can only get level 5 at the highest even if they get 100%. they toyed with the idea of 5* but it hasn't happened.

In addtion to the test level, pupils get a teacher assessment level which is reported withthe test levels to parents. Teachers can judge pupils to be working at level 6 and there are some new materials which teachers can use if they want to to support thier assessment. Historically, Level 6 tutoring did take place but since the tests ended, we haven't done this. Is it possible that your dd's school are extending their more able or is it possible that they didn't have any level 6 pupils last year and haven't realised that the level 6 paper is no more?

Let me know if you want further info

Original poster
jampot · 28/02/2004 22:49

Popsycal - what would the benefit be of giving my dd extra work - is it just to ensure a level 5? Can a level 6 be achieved in the normal paper?

OP posts:
Original poster
jampot · 28/02/2004 22:51

Popsycal - I think our posts crossed. Thanks for the info. I don't think anyone achieved level 6 last year (small school - not particularly academic) so it is possible they don't know. However, I will keep quiet about it because a little extra help can't hurt!!

OP posts:
popsycal · 28/02/2004 22:54

Level 6 cannot be achieved at all inthe tests. historically, it was all political.....being careful what I say here. It has been said by some that headteachers may, perhaps, have been paid in some way (performance etc) for level 6s in sats
they do not exist anymore....if you dd is having level 6 tuition then her level 5 is in no doubt...I honestly don't see the point. we do not do level 6 tuition...however, brighter pupils are taught the key stage three syllabus as a matter of corse if they are working at a very high level.

Level 6 at key stage two suggests knowledge of key stage three syllabus - which most 11 year olds do not have. most of the level 6 tutoring that wnet on was part exam techniques....part key stage threee work

to answer your question.......in my opinion (7 years of teaching, year six teacher for 5 years, head of year 6 for 3...) the level 6 tuition is ow unnecssary and she wouldbe better off looking at level 5 work.....unless she enjoys it and finds it challenging
excuse typing
tired

popsycal · 28/02/2004 22:55

If you want to contact me via another talker then please do and I will be happy to help further...

Janh · 28/02/2004 23:01

popsycal, I so agree with you. We had a letter home from school this week about a parents' survey that went out a couple of months ago - as usual a number of parents have complained about not enough homework - oh please.

Even level 5 passes aren't recorded in league tables, are they? (Unless that's changed now?) So why push them on to get Level 6?

Give them more interesting things to do by all means but why must they be pushed to do more? If they get KS3 work at primary school what are they going to do at secondary school? Why can't they have more time to mess about being kids?

(Sorry. Soapbox of mine!)

Original poster
jampot · 28/02/2004 23:01

Thanks Popsycal for your help. I do find school confusing sometimes especially when I hear conflicting information. I will allow my daughter to enjoy what is left of her primary education without the added pressure of achieving something which does not exist. Good luck with your children for next term. PS: Heard today that dd has got into preferred school (but seriously out of catchment) In previous years some catchment children haven't secured places because it's so over subscribed. I am so happy!!!!!

OP posts:
popsycal · 28/02/2004 23:04

I am with you on this one JanH!
Level 5s are not reported publically but they contribute to a school's ever increasing in importance 'points score' which contirbutes to 'value added' measures and to their PANDA (please don't ask!!!)

In other words.....of no benefit to the kids!
Tell you dd to try her best, to stay calm and to sleep well, drink water and have enough relaxation time too!!

Janh · 28/02/2004 23:08

Oh - PANDAs - I sort of know about them, I was a parent gov from 96-00 and the Head started referring to PANDAs towards the end of that. (It's the comparison with similar schools, isn't it?)

popsycal · 28/02/2004 23:10

yes jan it is.....
hmmmmmmmm
dont get me started on pandas and value added

actually i find panda somewhat amusing now since one of ds's first words was danda - and when they ranmble on about pandas i can hear him chirping away in my head danda danda danda!

Janh · 28/02/2004 23:11

The thing about a Level 6 type child is that they are just really bright kids, nothing to do with the school really - and Level 5 too probably? - they shouldn't be considered as a measure of the school's excellence. The ones who get up to Level 3/4 when it wasn't expected of them is a better indicator, surely?

popsycal · 28/02/2004 23:13

It is a tricky one sin't it...especially on a saturday night at 1:10 after afew beers

levels smevels that's what i say......

especially since i have been sitting marking 33 practices maths sats tests this eveing
oh the joy

popsycal · 28/02/2004 23:13

make that 11:10

Janh · 28/02/2004 23:16

33 is a big class! DS2's is about the same. His teacher also has small children - he's the dad (obviously!) rather than the mum, and not a New Man either, but dealing with 30-odd kids all day and then going home to pre-schoolers must be such hard work - respect, popsy!

popsycal · 28/02/2004 23:18

its just a job its just a job its just a job
i try to convince myself......

Janh · 28/02/2004 23:22

think of the money...think of the money...think of the money...!

popsycal · 28/02/2004 23:26

hahahaha!!!!
Anwyay - i will cathc up with this thread in the morning....may have something more logical to add then!!

popsycal · 28/02/2004 23:27

and might also learn to type
or at least preview!

tigermoth · 29/02/2004 08:09

all very interesting - thanks for enlightening me popsycal and janh. I knew about the maths thing and level 6 at primary, the normal syllabus not covering that level and so on.

Talking of challenging work, I had a look at some 11+ test papers I have at home and decided I really must see if I can do them. Having 3 A levels a 2:1 history degree (including the highest 'first' mark in our entire college year for my dissertation), I thought I'd be able to do 11+ questions with no problem. The literacy paper was ok. The multiple choice non-verbal reasoning was a killer!! Granted I started with the hardest questions at the end of the paper, but not only could I not find the answers, when I looked them up on the answer list, I then couldn't work out why they were correct. After that, I didn't even attempt the numeracy paper.

I was really surprised at how difficult these challenging papers are. Perhaps with age my brain is turning to mush.

Original poster
jampot · 02/03/2004 16:28

I spoke with my daughters teacher today re: level 6 tuition and she is adamant that there is an extension paper. I said I thought there was no such thing but she maintains there is.

OP posts:
popsycal · 02/03/2004 19:29

there is not there is not there is not there is not there is not
hold on

popsycal · 02/03/2004 19:44

look at page 3 of this booklet published by QCA - who write the tests
Download it first
your dd's teacher is WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!
page three is about sicence but it applies to maths and english too...will keep look for specific info for you....

I am cross - your poor dd!

popsycal · 02/03/2004 20:42

i ahev sat here fior the last half hour trying despereately to find the official word on these tests - but cant find it

i know for DEFINITE though that the level 6 tests do not exist.....
i went on a course run by QCA last year and had afew children in my year group who COULD have one the test but didn't
BECAUSE THEY DON'T EXIST!!