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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Ex-husband's wife sent this email during custody dispute, was it inappropriate?

209 replies

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 01:10

FYI this happened a long time ago. 2015 to be exact. My ex and I were in custody dispute. He and his wife wanted full time care of my eldest girl (Rebecca). I had agreed to only 50/50. They felt that her autism diagnosis was wrong and that I was conditioning and enabling her. He had become highly verbally abusive and his wife (a trained counsellor) stepped in to try to negotiate. This is her email. I found it to be a huge boundary violation. I have changed the names.
Hello Hannah,

Thank you for your email. I acknowledge that you changed your mind about meeting next weekend, I find that a bit of a shame as actions toward better communication could be, in my view, really helpful.

Great that you agreed to the new schedule which is based on your revised wishes.

You hope that one day Rebecca will appreciate your decision to prevent Matthew from caring for her full time. I think it sometimes requires a lot of love and grandeur to let go of your own needs and try new things for the sake of the child. Assigning Matthew full time care for Rebecca would have been such thing. It would have been a chance for Rebecca. Why would it mean you give up on Rebecca? You had both girls in fulltime care for nearly four years and Matthew never viewed this as giving up on his children. I really wonder how you develop such views? You both, Matthew and you, have the same rights to care for the children. Hannah, that's right, time will reveal Rebeccas's views on this. I agree, one day both girls will form their opinions about their experiences with both of you. They will make up their minds what they found helpful, what not, what they liked and what not. They will do this as we all did it with our parents. Good mother or good father – at the end of the day it is for them to say what they think.

Please don't worry about the way Matthew portrays you. I am well aware of the fact that I hear only his perception. Please also know that neither of us are judging you. You can do what you want, have you own values, live your own life as you want, please don't worry about this. We never comment on things related to you towards the girls and we take our pride in this. We also have no bad intentions towards you, we both wish you all the best, why would we want anything bad for you?

But still Hannah, between both of you parents, it must be possible to raise concerns. If Matthew e.g. gets the impression that Sarah gets more attention than Rebecca he must have the possibility to raise this issue with you, would you not agree? This is in our view just a normal part of communication between parents. And btw, you do this too on a regular basis.

Since we don't see each other on the weekend, please let me say a few words about your (Matthew's and your) way of communicating. I am well aware that you despise Matthew for his bad communication style because he is sometimes getting very aggravated, aggressive and becomes verbally abusive. You are absolutely right. And I have seen him on a number of occasions finding it extremely difficult to stay calm when things are getting out of hand between you two.
But I think it is a bit one sided to point the finger on Matthew alone and see yourself as the victim. Its never right to blame just one side. As a person who witnessed you both communicating, I would like to invite you to hear my perspective of it. It can see that you still hold a lot of resentments against Michael. Your relationship ended nearly four years ago, and I strongly doubt that you reached closure. Maybe you disagree, maybe you reflect on this and find the right answer to this question for yourself. What I observe is, that Matthew never gets it right for you. In your books he is to blame for this, that and the other. Just recently for Sarah not wanting to eat at McDonalds (please see your last Thursdays texts) and in yesterday texts you even blamed him for you not having a good relationship with your daughter Rebecca. Within this framework you expect him to react friendly, patiently and respectful. Beyond that you often don't consult with him in parenting questions, you rather consult with outsiders, I suspect you don't view him as competent (??). And, I'm very sorry to mention it, you don't acknowledge his efforts and achievements with the girls. In contrast you even criticise him for that.
I can tell you that Matthew too loves his children and he actively helps them to reach their full potential, to improve their behaviours, gives them direction, guidelines, support and last but not least his love. Rebecca's improvements in math and her communication, for example, are remarkable. Both girls are happy around him. I must say, I admire that on him. I find is sometimes hard to watch how you criticise him for all that is possible while insisting to be respected, and not being criticised. Respect is of course preferable, it just has to go both ways. When we blame we should also see our own parts that we play.

I really hope that you give it a go and think about my words.

Kind regards

Katherine

OP posts:
Lightuptheroom · Yesterday 08:20

I had very similar letters from my ex 20 odd years ago. In their case his wife was a childcare professional and decided she was the perfect 'replacement mother' ... She really wasn't. It's important to lay these things to rest and leave them where they belong in the past. It hurts that our amazing children are so hurt by those who were supposed to want the best for them X wishing you all the best of lives xx

Soontobe60 · Yesterday 08:25

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 04:10

Btw, she is not a native English speaker, but the excessively verbose style was still incredibly cringeworthy. I am an English Language teacher and wanted to offer to help with her grammar. It's like she is desperate to show that she is my intellectual superior, but just exposes her own lack of emotional intelligence and plain common sense.

Why on earth would you want to ‘help with her grammar’? She was your exes new partner - what a twattish thing to do!

Fleetheart · Yesterday 08:26

JournalistEmily · Yesterday 08:15

Why are you posting this 11 yrs later? What does it achieve?

haven’t you noticed? this has been addressed several times?

Kittyninja267 · Yesterday 08:28

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 01:24

The names have been changed and it's very unlikely they are on here.

One name is different in the middle and might be the correct man's name. Maybe you should edit.
As regards the email, I would not be happy with that. You are not their patient asking for their perspective and they can't comment on yours or your children's lived experience before she was on the scene

Soontobe60 · Yesterday 08:28

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 05:17

It was shared care, then I had full-time care of my eldest from 2017.

Edited

What I don’t understand is, if you had full time care with one of your DC following allegations by you of abuse by her father, why did you not have full time care of both DC? Surely if a father is found to have been abusive to one of his DC the courts would prevent both DC from being with him? This makes no sense.

grrrlatrix · Yesterday 08:31

Clearly written before the days of AI!

WarriorN · Yesterday 08:33

Terfarina · Yesterday 08:20

I think anyone who has been through the hell of protracted custody proceedings could understand why 11 years on you still feel pain from that time and you don’t get over things without working through them.

of course it is an inappropriate, arrogant, pompous and emotionally incompetent letter. I can only imagine she is a terrible and maybe dangerous counsellor.

it sounds like your girls have childhood trauma but court battle are also traumatic for them and a way in which men continue abuse of women - and sometimes the other way round.

Sarah is very young and may well see things differently in the future, particularly when she becomes a parent.

Absolutely; a friend worked so hard to avoid court as it would have traumatised the girls further but unfortunately her abusive ex still managed to be abusive. The younger child was left with trauma. Over all a court proceeding still would have been worse.

Women are often between a rock and a hard place in these situations. It’s shit.

Pleasepleaseme1 · Yesterday 08:33

She's a fucking psycho. I read it again in a condescending kiwi accent and it sent shivers down my spine. I imagine her working as a counsellor, enjoying feeling superior to her clients. Her ego feeding off other people's pain and misery.

A dag and a dingus and quite probably a serial killer.

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 08:36

Soontobe60 · Yesterday 08:25

Why on earth would you want to ‘help with her grammar’? She was your exes new partner - what a twattish thing to do!

I didn't say that of course! I was so annoyed with her being patronising that I wanted to patronise her back! It was a joke, calm down.

OP posts:
Itchysidefoot · Yesterday 08:37

11 years later and how much would you say you spend thinking about this @Kiwiana100 ?

It still seems very very raw and present

LizandDerekGoals · Yesterday 08:38

Soontobe60 · Yesterday 08:25

Why on earth would you want to ‘help with her grammar’? She was your exes new partner - what a twattish thing to do!

i honestly cannot tell whether you are joking. I would assume you were… as otherwise it means you took that comment literally.

I am well aware that you despise Matthew for his bad communication style because he is sometimes getting very aggravated, aggressive and becomes verbally abusive.
She told on him with that sentence, didnt she! Right there in an email that her husband is abusive towards you.

Itchysidefoot · Yesterday 08:38

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 06:43

Complicated. They both have trauma,

I am not surprised you have a difficult relationship with both your daughters, because if you had healthy and happy relationships with them - this incident from 11 years wouldn’t be still so present in your thoughts

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 08:38

Soontobe60 · Yesterday 08:28

What I don’t understand is, if you had full time care with one of your DC following allegations by you of abuse by her father, why did you not have full time care of both DC? Surely if a father is found to have been abusive to one of his DC the courts would prevent both DC from being with him? This makes no sense.

It's complicated to explain. There was only physical abuse of one of the children. The other one was very aligned with him and having her in my home re traumatised my other one. He gave up custody voluntarily and there was no court case,

OP posts:
Itchysidefoot · Yesterday 08:41

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 07:52

It's ok I have had much worse. I just don't see why the poster tried to say that he/she wasn't bothered when they took the time to comment 3 times! And 'extrapolate' was my ex's favourite word. Not saying there is a connection, but...

You think I’m your ex?

bloody hell

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 08:43

Itchysidefoot · Yesterday 08:41

You think I’m your ex?

bloody hell

Lol, who's misreading now! It's a weird coincidence. It just made me laugh.

OP posts:
LizandDerekGoals · Yesterday 08:43

Itchysidefoot · Yesterday 08:41

You think I’m your ex?

bloody hell

What are you talking about?

DixonD · Yesterday 08:44

CalmBalonz · Yesterday 03:38

Hi Hannah,
Yes, this reads as a significant boundary violation, and I think your instinct on this was right.
A few things stand out:
She's not a parent to Rebecca or Sarah. However involved she is day-to-day, she's not entitled to negotiate custody terms or critique your parenting directly with you. That's between you and Matthew. Her inserting herself into that conversation — especially at length, in writing, during an active dispute — oversteps what her role actually is.
She uses her counsellor training as leverage. Phrases like "as a person who witnessed you both communicating, I would like to invite you to hear my perspective" and the whole "I strongly doubt you reached closure" section aren't neutral observations — they're informal psychoanalysis of you, delivered with the authority of her profession behind them. A trained counsellor should know better than to diagnose someone's emotional state as a tactic in a personal dispute they have a stake in. That's not a professional opinion, it's advocacy dressed up as insight.
The "both sides" framing minimises abuse. You describe Matthew as having become highly verbally abusive. Katherine's email response to that is essentially "you're not wrong, but it's not one-sided" — followed by a list of ways you allegedly provoke him. That's a classic pattern: acknowledge the behaviour briefly, then spend several paragraphs explaining why you caused it. It shifts responsibility for his conduct onto you.
The tone is subtly coercive. Long, warm, reasonable-sounding language, wrapped around pressure to change your legal position ("I really hope you give it a go and think about my words"). It's not threatening, but it's also not the neutral, informational tone you'd expect from someone genuinely staying out of it.

If you're looking at this now because it's relevant again (custody review, something with Rebecca, anything current), a family solicitor would be worth showing this to — not because one email decides anything, but because a pattern of a third party pressuring you outside of formal channels can be relevant context.
You weren't wrong to feel uncomfortable reading it.

AI. Can’t you post your own words?

FIoorboard · Yesterday 08:46

God just let it go!

curious79 · Yesterday 08:49

Hilariously patronising letter and trying to one up you / undermine.
I have got rid of correspondence like that from my divorce as I find it shoots me straight back to a very unhappy place. Makes me feel massively stressed. Are you keeping it so your DD’s can read it? Not sure I would. Would it help you to ritually burn it all - literal print it out and burn- and clear the spirits away?!

Thisismyfinesthour · Yesterday 08:49

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 01:10

FYI this happened a long time ago. 2015 to be exact. My ex and I were in custody dispute. He and his wife wanted full time care of my eldest girl (Rebecca). I had agreed to only 50/50. They felt that her autism diagnosis was wrong and that I was conditioning and enabling her. He had become highly verbally abusive and his wife (a trained counsellor) stepped in to try to negotiate. This is her email. I found it to be a huge boundary violation. I have changed the names.
Hello Hannah,

Thank you for your email. I acknowledge that you changed your mind about meeting next weekend, I find that a bit of a shame as actions toward better communication could be, in my view, really helpful.

Great that you agreed to the new schedule which is based on your revised wishes.

You hope that one day Rebecca will appreciate your decision to prevent Matthew from caring for her full time. I think it sometimes requires a lot of love and grandeur to let go of your own needs and try new things for the sake of the child. Assigning Matthew full time care for Rebecca would have been such thing. It would have been a chance for Rebecca. Why would it mean you give up on Rebecca? You had both girls in fulltime care for nearly four years and Matthew never viewed this as giving up on his children. I really wonder how you develop such views? You both, Matthew and you, have the same rights to care for the children. Hannah, that's right, time will reveal Rebeccas's views on this. I agree, one day both girls will form their opinions about their experiences with both of you. They will make up their minds what they found helpful, what not, what they liked and what not. They will do this as we all did it with our parents. Good mother or good father – at the end of the day it is for them to say what they think.

Please don't worry about the way Matthew portrays you. I am well aware of the fact that I hear only his perception. Please also know that neither of us are judging you. You can do what you want, have you own values, live your own life as you want, please don't worry about this. We never comment on things related to you towards the girls and we take our pride in this. We also have no bad intentions towards you, we both wish you all the best, why would we want anything bad for you?

But still Hannah, between both of you parents, it must be possible to raise concerns. If Matthew e.g. gets the impression that Sarah gets more attention than Rebecca he must have the possibility to raise this issue with you, would you not agree? This is in our view just a normal part of communication between parents. And btw, you do this too on a regular basis.

Since we don't see each other on the weekend, please let me say a few words about your (Matthew's and your) way of communicating. I am well aware that you despise Matthew for his bad communication style because he is sometimes getting very aggravated, aggressive and becomes verbally abusive. You are absolutely right. And I have seen him on a number of occasions finding it extremely difficult to stay calm when things are getting out of hand between you two.
But I think it is a bit one sided to point the finger on Matthew alone and see yourself as the victim. Its never right to blame just one side. As a person who witnessed you both communicating, I would like to invite you to hear my perspective of it. It can see that you still hold a lot of resentments against Michael. Your relationship ended nearly four years ago, and I strongly doubt that you reached closure. Maybe you disagree, maybe you reflect on this and find the right answer to this question for yourself. What I observe is, that Matthew never gets it right for you. In your books he is to blame for this, that and the other. Just recently for Sarah not wanting to eat at McDonalds (please see your last Thursdays texts) and in yesterday texts you even blamed him for you not having a good relationship with your daughter Rebecca. Within this framework you expect him to react friendly, patiently and respectful. Beyond that you often don't consult with him in parenting questions, you rather consult with outsiders, I suspect you don't view him as competent (??). And, I'm very sorry to mention it, you don't acknowledge his efforts and achievements with the girls. In contrast you even criticise him for that.
I can tell you that Matthew too loves his children and he actively helps them to reach their full potential, to improve their behaviours, gives them direction, guidelines, support and last but not least his love. Rebecca's improvements in math and her communication, for example, are remarkable. Both girls are happy around him. I must say, I admire that on him. I find is sometimes hard to watch how you criticise him for all that is possible while insisting to be respected, and not being criticised. Respect is of course preferable, it just has to go both ways. When we blame we should also see our own parts that we play.

I really hope that you give it a go and think about my words.

Kind regards

Katherine

That email - What a load of total airy fairy therapy bollocks 😆would be my response to all that word shite salad.

daisychain01 · Yesterday 08:51

DistantEarlyWarning · Yesterday 07:31

To the posters saying essentially “shut up, you’re wrong to be thinking about this a decade on”, why are you doing this?

OP doesn’t want to be thinking about it, but that period has had such a huge impact on her life and that of her daughters, and the fall-out is ongoing.

It’s astonishing to think that people think she shouldn’t feel how she feels and talk about it. The lack of empathy is quite something - to just dismiss someone’s trauma in a one-liner.

The fall out is only ongoing because the OP allows it to be. Maybe she should try try meditation and a bit of stoicism*, it's wonderful for discovering new perspectives.

*and for the absence of doubt stoicism is not about quietly putting up with life shit, quite the opposite, it's about centring your thoughts and behaviour on things you can control and ejecting things that live rent-free in your head.

ETA - keeping that email on your computer is a really daft thing to do, it means you go back to it time after time, ruminating, re-living the past experience and allowing it to occupy your thoughts and preventing you from really moving on (no matter how much you say you have). Your ex's wife is winning this one!

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 08:51

curious79 · Yesterday 08:49

Hilariously patronising letter and trying to one up you / undermine.
I have got rid of correspondence like that from my divorce as I find it shoots me straight back to a very unhappy place. Makes me feel massively stressed. Are you keeping it so your DD’s can read it? Not sure I would. Would it help you to ritually burn it all - literal print it out and burn- and clear the spirits away?!

No absolutely never to show my kids! It's safely hidden in a computer file.

OP posts:
sheisforrealatiger · Yesterday 08:51

Surely any counsellor would see that an ex’s new wife is not going to be unbiased and even if she was so much of a higher being that she managed to be unbiased, she is not going to be seen as unbiased by the first wife, is she? So what good is it going to do? It’s not about communicating at that point, it’s about saying what she wants to say, and I agree, in a very patronising way.

I can’t comment on whether the things she said were fair or true - but I did think it’s weird to agree someone is abusive and then say that you push them to it.

I don’t think it’s weird you’re processing this now that you’ve had some distance. I think that’s very healthy actually.

Sorry you have ongoing issues with your DDs. Maybe your work that you’re doing now will help.

Thisismyfinesthour · Yesterday 08:55

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 08:51

No absolutely never to show my kids! It's safely hidden in a computer file.

No need to hide it like a dirty secret, delete it and done with. No need to revisit any of this shit.

Itchysidefoot · Yesterday 08:55

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 08:43

Lol, who's misreading now! It's a weird coincidence. It just made me laugh.

Bizarre. How is it misreading to think you are implying I am your ex when you say you think the word “extrapolate” ( a not uncommon word) was your ex’s favourite word and you wonder if connected.

Moving on…. You say both girls are very damaged and you have a complicated relationship with them both. Why not channel your energy in to addressing this much much more concerning and relevant (and present day!) issue?

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