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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Ex-husband's wife sent this email during custody dispute, was it inappropriate?

209 replies

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 01:10

FYI this happened a long time ago. 2015 to be exact. My ex and I were in custody dispute. He and his wife wanted full time care of my eldest girl (Rebecca). I had agreed to only 50/50. They felt that her autism diagnosis was wrong and that I was conditioning and enabling her. He had become highly verbally abusive and his wife (a trained counsellor) stepped in to try to negotiate. This is her email. I found it to be a huge boundary violation. I have changed the names.
Hello Hannah,

Thank you for your email. I acknowledge that you changed your mind about meeting next weekend, I find that a bit of a shame as actions toward better communication could be, in my view, really helpful.

Great that you agreed to the new schedule which is based on your revised wishes.

You hope that one day Rebecca will appreciate your decision to prevent Matthew from caring for her full time. I think it sometimes requires a lot of love and grandeur to let go of your own needs and try new things for the sake of the child. Assigning Matthew full time care for Rebecca would have been such thing. It would have been a chance for Rebecca. Why would it mean you give up on Rebecca? You had both girls in fulltime care for nearly four years and Matthew never viewed this as giving up on his children. I really wonder how you develop such views? You both, Matthew and you, have the same rights to care for the children. Hannah, that's right, time will reveal Rebeccas's views on this. I agree, one day both girls will form their opinions about their experiences with both of you. They will make up their minds what they found helpful, what not, what they liked and what not. They will do this as we all did it with our parents. Good mother or good father – at the end of the day it is for them to say what they think.

Please don't worry about the way Matthew portrays you. I am well aware of the fact that I hear only his perception. Please also know that neither of us are judging you. You can do what you want, have you own values, live your own life as you want, please don't worry about this. We never comment on things related to you towards the girls and we take our pride in this. We also have no bad intentions towards you, we both wish you all the best, why would we want anything bad for you?

But still Hannah, between both of you parents, it must be possible to raise concerns. If Matthew e.g. gets the impression that Sarah gets more attention than Rebecca he must have the possibility to raise this issue with you, would you not agree? This is in our view just a normal part of communication between parents. And btw, you do this too on a regular basis.

Since we don't see each other on the weekend, please let me say a few words about your (Matthew's and your) way of communicating. I am well aware that you despise Matthew for his bad communication style because he is sometimes getting very aggravated, aggressive and becomes verbally abusive. You are absolutely right. And I have seen him on a number of occasions finding it extremely difficult to stay calm when things are getting out of hand between you two.
But I think it is a bit one sided to point the finger on Matthew alone and see yourself as the victim. Its never right to blame just one side. As a person who witnessed you both communicating, I would like to invite you to hear my perspective of it. It can see that you still hold a lot of resentments against Michael. Your relationship ended nearly four years ago, and I strongly doubt that you reached closure. Maybe you disagree, maybe you reflect on this and find the right answer to this question for yourself. What I observe is, that Matthew never gets it right for you. In your books he is to blame for this, that and the other. Just recently for Sarah not wanting to eat at McDonalds (please see your last Thursdays texts) and in yesterday texts you even blamed him for you not having a good relationship with your daughter Rebecca. Within this framework you expect him to react friendly, patiently and respectful. Beyond that you often don't consult with him in parenting questions, you rather consult with outsiders, I suspect you don't view him as competent (??). And, I'm very sorry to mention it, you don't acknowledge his efforts and achievements with the girls. In contrast you even criticise him for that.
I can tell you that Matthew too loves his children and he actively helps them to reach their full potential, to improve their behaviours, gives them direction, guidelines, support and last but not least his love. Rebecca's improvements in math and her communication, for example, are remarkable. Both girls are happy around him. I must say, I admire that on him. I find is sometimes hard to watch how you criticise him for all that is possible while insisting to be respected, and not being criticised. Respect is of course preferable, it just has to go both ways. When we blame we should also see our own parts that we play.

I really hope that you give it a go and think about my words.

Kind regards

Katherine

OP posts:
WarriorN · Yesterday 05:51

CalmBalonz · Yesterday 03:38

Hi Hannah,
Yes, this reads as a significant boundary violation, and I think your instinct on this was right.
A few things stand out:
She's not a parent to Rebecca or Sarah. However involved she is day-to-day, she's not entitled to negotiate custody terms or critique your parenting directly with you. That's between you and Matthew. Her inserting herself into that conversation — especially at length, in writing, during an active dispute — oversteps what her role actually is.
She uses her counsellor training as leverage. Phrases like "as a person who witnessed you both communicating, I would like to invite you to hear my perspective" and the whole "I strongly doubt you reached closure" section aren't neutral observations — they're informal psychoanalysis of you, delivered with the authority of her profession behind them. A trained counsellor should know better than to diagnose someone's emotional state as a tactic in a personal dispute they have a stake in. That's not a professional opinion, it's advocacy dressed up as insight.
The "both sides" framing minimises abuse. You describe Matthew as having become highly verbally abusive. Katherine's email response to that is essentially "you're not wrong, but it's not one-sided" — followed by a list of ways you allegedly provoke him. That's a classic pattern: acknowledge the behaviour briefly, then spend several paragraphs explaining why you caused it. It shifts responsibility for his conduct onto you.
The tone is subtly coercive. Long, warm, reasonable-sounding language, wrapped around pressure to change your legal position ("I really hope you give it a go and think about my words"). It's not threatening, but it's also not the neutral, informational tone you'd expect from someone genuinely staying out of it.

If you're looking at this now because it's relevant again (custody review, something with Rebecca, anything current), a family solicitor would be worth showing this to — not because one email decides anything, but because a pattern of a third party pressuring you outside of formal channels can be relevant context.
You weren't wrong to feel uncomfortable reading it.

This is clearly chat gtp but it is a good analysis - manipulative and coercive is what I see in that email.

Chilling to think she’s a therapist

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 05:55

What I did do was quitely go off and complete my master's degree with straight As. So she can stick her intellectual superiority right up her you know where.

OP posts:
ThatCosy · Yesterday 05:57

It's self-righteous, pompous and not neutral. I would have felt enraged.

HoraceCope · Yesterday 05:58

are they still together?
and one of your offspring still sees them?

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 06:01

HoraceCope · Yesterday 05:58

are they still together?
and one of your offspring still sees them?

Yes correct. From what I can gather, it's like a war zone a lot of the time.

OP posts:
OutwiththeOutCrowd · Yesterday 06:02

ThatCosy · Yesterday 05:57

It's self-righteous, pompous and not neutral. I would have felt enraged.

I agree. The feigned neutrality is a particularly exasperating aspect!

WarriorN · Yesterday 06:07

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 05:55

What I did do was quitely go off and complete my master's degree with straight As. So she can stick her intellectual superiority right up her you know where.

Well well done you!

I’m not surprised you’re re visiting things. It sounds like it was a horrible time and one you just had to survive through to get the best for your daughters.

I’ve been revisiting some traumatic experiences from a decade ago to try to work out my responses at the time and it’s been helpful in a way to recognise that I wasn’t being unreasonable and my gut reactions were correct. So I get why you want to review that email now. It’s also easier when we are calmer.

I also regret not having the opportunity or experience to draw boundaries in the way I feel you are regretting here. I’m trying to rationalise it all and lay it to rest. But some of that is confronting the issues and drawing the boundaries now that I didn’t at the time.

I don’t know if it’s too late to do anything about that email now; I think it’s very unprofessional and the fact that abusive behaviour is acknowledged but she tells you to try to view it differently is particularly concerning to me. She’s a therapist who is outright gaslighting you.

ResultsMayVary · Yesterday 06:24

It sounded like she wanted to alienate you from your eldest daughter and was completely blind to her autism traits or acknowledging her husband's abusive behaviour. Clearly events showed how right you were to protect your daughter - I'm sorry they put her (and you!) through so much.

I assume it was easier to blame you and deny reality than admit she's married an arsehole. A man who perhaps has undiagnosed autism himself from how you described his inability to stay calm.

Itchysidefoot · Yesterday 06:27

11 years later and here you are @Kiwiana100 .

Spend some money on therapy.

daisychain01 · Yesterday 06:29

After 11 years you need to let this go.

If modern AI had existed back then I'd say it's the sort of mumbo-jumbo it would have come out with.

all the Hannah this, Hannah that. Hmmmm

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 06:30

Itchysidefoot · Yesterday 06:27

11 years later and here you are @Kiwiana100 .

Spend some money on therapy.

Lol, sorry it bothers you so much! Yes, done a lot of therapy and come a long way. I have found the responses really helpful. Maybe just scroll on by if you don't like a post?

OP posts:
Itchysidefoot · Yesterday 06:39

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 06:30

Lol, sorry it bothers you so much! Yes, done a lot of therapy and come a long way. I have found the responses really helpful. Maybe just scroll on by if you don't like a post?

You have managed to extrapolate that it bothers me so much on that basis of a two line post suggesting therapy?

Goodness, makes me wonder whether you always mis interpret written docs….

Itchysidefoot · Yesterday 06:40

Go back to your therapist and be honest about starting a thread about this 11 years later…. See what they say.

DozyCrow · Yesterday 06:40

In your OP where you replicate her letter, Matthew becomes Michael at one point, so you may have accidentally missed one of your name changes and outed your ex.

Itchysidefoot · Yesterday 06:41

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 03:51

My autistic daughter (Rebecca) is hugely resentful towards both of them and chooses to have no contact. My non autistic daughter is very closely aligned and continues to defend them.

And you are very close to both daughter? Healthy and happy relationships with them both?

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 06:43

Itchysidefoot · Yesterday 06:41

And you are very close to both daughter? Healthy and happy relationships with them both?

Complicated. They both have trauma,

OP posts:
Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 06:44

Itchysidefoot · Yesterday 06:39

You have managed to extrapolate that it bothers me so much on that basis of a two line post suggesting therapy?

Goodness, makes me wonder whether you always mis interpret written docs….

Other responders have been quite constructive. As I said, the scroll function is wonderful.

OP posts:
Tel12 · Yesterday 06:47

Leave this and move on with your life.

JLou08 · Yesterday 06:50

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 02:02

I just replied to say thank you for your input and there is no further need for communication.
I get that it is a long time ago. I am just curious about how it reads. I am not in any particularly bad space other than supporting my daughter who has ongoing trauma.

It reads like patronising waffle from someone who thinks they are superior.

WarriorN · Yesterday 07:11

Itchysidefoot · Yesterday 06:40

Go back to your therapist and be honest about starting a thread about this 11 years later…. See what they say.

A decent one would help to reframe the unresolved feelings so that the op is able to put it to rest.

She’s not there yet and needed some perspectives on whether or not this was a shitty unprofessional and manipulative email or not, before deciding next steps.

We’ve all agreed it is.

That’s the whole point of the thread.

dizzydizzydizzy · Yesterday 07:26

Your ex’s wife definitely thinks she has has the moral high ground. How patronising!

TheReflectiveQualityofGlass · Yesterday 07:29

She sounds narcissistic to me. Probably would fit communal narcissist pattern o reckon. Totally overstepping but why wouldn’t she? She is better than you and would do a better job of raising your child … in her head.

Your response was perfect.

I get why you have posted now - I posted one about something that happened very early on in my marriage which I’ve now come to realise was abusive. It’s part of growth - re-processing but from a different position. As long as it’s not eating you up and causing distress then you can safely take your therapist off speed dial I reckon.

DistantEarlyWarning · Yesterday 07:31

To the posters saying essentially “shut up, you’re wrong to be thinking about this a decade on”, why are you doing this?

OP doesn’t want to be thinking about it, but that period has had such a huge impact on her life and that of her daughters, and the fall-out is ongoing.

It’s astonishing to think that people think she shouldn’t feel how she feels and talk about it. The lack of empathy is quite something - to just dismiss someone’s trauma in a one-liner.

WearyAuldWumman · Yesterday 07:35

Kiwiana100 · Yesterday 06:30

Lol, sorry it bothers you so much! Yes, done a lot of therapy and come a long way. I have found the responses really helpful. Maybe just scroll on by if you don't like a post?

FWIW, I too mull things over from years back but I'm ND and I've since been told that this is common with those of us who are ND.

However, even if I were NT I'm fairly certain that this would rankle with me and be one of those things that might hit me x number of years down the line.

HoppingPavlova · Yesterday 07:38

Hello Katherine, I’m assuming you have had a fair few drinks, or something else, before composing and sending that and I appreciate this will result in you being quite embarrassed. I’m hoping this is a one off, as if this situation occurs again, it would be best to severe communications in entirety.
Regards, Hannah

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