Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Original poster

Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “could be considered” amid rise in blood clots 2

981 replies

Whichjab · 06/05/2021 21:50

Just starting another thread as so much information still coming out. Interesting that Germany have just allowed AZ for all that want it.

Note, this is not an Anti-Vaccs thread. It is just a discussion about alternatives.

OP posts:
Nofriend · 13/05/2021 19:16

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at OP's request.

whataballbag · 13/05/2021 19:20

@Nofriend

Yes I saw that and I don’t mind short term side effects as long as it safe I had terrible side effects from my first AZ temp of 39 degrees and chills for 3 days.
Great that your gp is taking your concerns seriously though!

I was rough as toast for a few days after my first, extremely concerned about the second, and I suffer cluster headaches anyway so wouldn't necessarily pick up on a 'severe' headache if that makes sense!

Iceniii · 13/05/2021 19:29

I get ice pick headaches. I'll be panicking if I get one after the vaccine!

MiniMaxi · 13/05/2021 20:29

@Rainbowsandstorms I don’t think they really know yet. It’s still looking like 1 in a million (8 cases from 7.5 million second doses) but really to be on the safe side it should be viewed as 8 from however many people had had a second dose 3-4 weeks ago - that would likely be a bit of an overestimate though. I don’t know how many people that is as didn’t occur to me to save the reports!

I’ve seen a couple of anecdotal reports that the second dose cases aren’t typical VITT but that’s not via MHRA.

I get why it SHOULD be less frequent second time round but not convinced yet.

AppleJane · 13/05/2021 21:20

[quote User657849]Article from Daily Mail regarding blood clots.

German doctor has theory on why they happen.
Also, American doctors share drug they effectively used on blood clot sufferer after J&J vaccine.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9575085/Coronavirus-Scientist-claims-preservative-AstraZeneca-vaccine-clot-link.html[/quote]

That's interesting @User657849 so the German doctor thinks the preservative used in AZ could be the cause. I wonder how easy it would be for them to swap that component in the future.

MrsFezziwig · 13/05/2021 21:29

Interim data suggests more short term effects, fever, chills etc, but no major concerns

Though bear in mind it is a relatively small study - less than 1,000 volunteers, with an additional 1,000 in the second part of the study which hasn’t been going very long, so I presume the interim results are from the first part. Presumably there will be similar trials elsewhere in the world though?

Ninefeettall · 13/05/2021 21:39

My concern is that it's not so very long ago since they'd vaccinated millions of people and only had '5 cases' of blood clots. It all felt quite safe and like it may not even be connected. I feel like that could be where we are with second doses and clots, because the young people aren't getting their second doses yet. I also think there will be a slodown in cases and deaths due to people being very hesitant to get AZ.

User657849 · 13/05/2021 21:57

@AppleJane, I know, it would be great if they could start producing the new batches with a different preservative. Hopefully AZ will look into it and see if it makes sense to them too.

Also good news if the thinner that the Americans have used clears it up quickly.

It makes me feel better that someone is looking into it.

AppleJane · 13/05/2021 22:10

Definitely @User657849 it takes it from scary and unknown to something hopefully they can work with!

Rainbowsandstorms · 13/05/2021 22:50

@MiniMaxi yes absolutely, annoyingly I’ve screen shot the key parts of the report relating to clots for the last few weeks but not the number of doses given. Like you it makes sense to me why it would be less with second doses but I’m also not yet convinced either. Like @Ninefeettall I remember well when it was very few cases per million with first doses. That’s when I carefully weighed up the risks and went ahead with my first, if only I’d listened to my gut. I remember telling my mum I was concerned and I was thinking of holding off and her saying ‘What will have changed in another month’ and everything changed just three days later. I’m really hoping things are better with the second dose, I just want to be fully protected but the risk doesn’t sit well with me right now. I know it’s pretty small but ....

MiniMaxi · 13/05/2021 23:16

Totally agree @Ninefeettall and @Rainbowsandstorms about the potential for sudden increase in cases given what we have seen before. I appreciate that the individual risk is still low...

I wonder if guidance will change again either for under 50s or second dosers. Am half wondering whether to push GP for a switch to mRNA but feels like that’s a bit of an unknown. Argh!

Rainbowsandstorms · 13/05/2021 23:28

@MiniMaxi I’m the same but I don’t think I feel comfortable with the mixing without the data or knowing the impact on immunity. I was hoping the early trial results would help but feel a little concerned that there was an increase in side effects when the participants were all over 50 and side effects are more marked in younger people. I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place and I don’t think there will ever be loads of data about the risk of second doses for those in their 30s and the mass data regarding second doses in people in their 40s and 50s will be out much later than my second dose is due. Part of me thinks just get on with it like lots of people are but another part thinks but what if it’s me. I can deal with a tiny risk but it’s the ever changing and increasing risks that worry me. It was horrible having just had my first dose and being faced with all the media alarm about blood clots as I already struggle with health related anxiety and I dread that happening again with second doses.

MiniMaxi · 13/05/2021 23:31

@Rainbowsandstorms ugh yes I feel that too. should probably go to bed and stop reading about this!! Grin

Rainbowsandstorms · 13/05/2021 23:44

@MiniMaxi me too, the worry and the research is taking up far too much of my time!

Swimbikerunmummy · 14/05/2021 09:30

Has anyone else still not had their first dose? I’m 43 and holding back (have clotting issues) but the rising cases of the India variant are making me feel under more pressure now.

Iceniii · 14/05/2021 09:47

I'm 43 too and not yet had my first dose. All appointments were 20 plus miles away. I had a GP text yesterday for the local hub, but I only had the choice of 1 day, which is the 1 day I have tickets with my children and neices for an event.

I'm going to have to book a distance one. The appointments are 2 weeks away so I guess I'll book one and see how things play out.

Iceniii · 14/05/2021 09:49

I actually can't concentrate on anything as I feel like I am being pressured into a choice I don't want to make.

Swimbikerunmummy · 14/05/2021 10:00

@Iceniii that’s exactly it. I don’t want to make this decision now, but every day it’s consuming all my thoughts.

littlepeas · 14/05/2021 10:19

Bromsgrove Artrix update - they have Pfizer AND AZ. Pfizer only given to those officially eligible - I was given a sticker!

Belladonna12 · 14/05/2021 10:37

Why do people think that there is a massive difference with regard to the risk of clots between older and younger people? At the most there is a slight difference. In reality the difference in reports is probably down to the fact that healthcare professionals/patients were more likely to report a blood clot if it occurred in a younger person with the first dose. They will have been looking at all second doses whether people were older or younger and the fact that there have been few reported cases suggest the incidence is much lower which is what you would expect.

IndigoC · 14/05/2021 10:40

@Belladonna12

Why do people think that there is a massive difference with regard to the risk of clots between older and younger people? At the most there is a slight difference. In reality the difference in reports is probably down to the fact that healthcare professionals/patients were more likely to report a blood clot if it occurred in a younger person with the first dose. They will have been looking at all second doses whether people were older or younger and the fact that there have been few reported cases suggest the incidence is much lower which is what you would expect.
The government here is saying it but I don’t think it’s a significant factor. That very good German study of their cases concluded age had surprisingly minimal impact.

There have been a recent slew of cases in Australia, all over 50, a lot of them men. This is a hard condition to pin down!

Cherrycee · 14/05/2021 10:59

Why do people think that there is a massive difference with regard to the risk of clots between older and younger people? At the most there is a slight difference.

1.9 per 100,000 for people in their 20s
0.8 per 100,000 for people in their 60s

It's more than a slight difference to be fair. The 20 something's risk is 2.4 times higher.

However, the difference does seem to have narrowed since this issue was first identified. The age restrictions would play a role here though. People in their 20s have not been receiving AZ for over 5 weeks now, so there won't be any change to their incidence rate going forward. The same will now be true for people in their 30s. The incidence rate for the older groups is increasing, and there's no reason to think it wouldn't have also increased in the younger groups if they were still receiving AZ.

Belladonna12 · 14/05/2021 11:06

@Cherrycee

Why do people think that there is a massive difference with regard to the risk of clots between older and younger people? At the most there is a slight difference.

1.9 per 100,000 for people in their 20s
0.8 per 100,000 for people in their 60s

It's more than a slight difference to be fair. The 20 something's risk is 2.4 times higher.

However, the difference does seem to have narrowed since this issue was first identified. The age restrictions would play a role here though. People in their 20s have not been receiving AZ for over 5 weeks now, so there won't be any change to their incidence rate going forward. The same will now be true for people in their 30s. The incidence rate for the older groups is increasing, and there's no reason to think it wouldn't have also increased in the younger groups if they were still receiving AZ.

I understand that there has been a difference in the number of reports but my point is that doesn't really tell us that there is any difference. If someone over 60 had a blood clot in February, the healthcare professionals would have been much less likely to report it via the yellow card as a blood clot at that age is not uncommon plus they weren't alert to the side effect at that point. That is the problem with yellow card reports. It relies on people submitting the report and that is much more likely to happen if it is an adverse event that has been reported a lot in the media.
EmpressSuiko · 14/05/2021 11:06

Has anyone been told they’ll be receiving a different vaccine after having AZ?
My doctor has told me to postpone my second dose as they wait for advice from the Covid vaccine advice service and I’ve been also referred to an allergy clinic due to my reaction after the first dose. I’m hoping to avoid AZ altogether now, hopefully they will find whatever is causing the blood clots and change the formula to one that is safer!

Belladonna12 · 14/05/2021 11:09

The government here is saying it but I don’t think it’s a significant factor. That very good German study of their cases concluded age had surprisingly minimal impact.

I'm not aware of the German study but generally a good research study would be much more accurate than yellow card reports so if it found age had a minimal impact that is likely to be the case.