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Original poster

Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “could be considered” amid rise in blood clots 2

981 replies

Whichjab · 06/05/2021 21:50

Just starting another thread as so much information still coming out. Interesting that Germany have just allowed AZ for all that want it.

Note, this is not an Anti-Vaccs thread. It is just a discussion about alternatives.

OP posts:
Cherrycee · 14/05/2021 11:13

If someone over 60 had a blood clot in February, the healthcare professionals would have been much less likely to report it via the yellow card as a blood clot at that age is not uncommon.

A blood clot in general, sure. But a rare CVST clot? Even if it wasn't reported via the yellow card at the time, I would assume it was recorded by the hospital as a CVST case. Those cases would have been examined since the side effect emerged.

Belladonna12 · 14/05/2021 11:19

@Cherrycee

If someone over 60 had a blood clot in February, the healthcare professionals would have been much less likely to report it via the yellow card as a blood clot at that age is not uncommon.

A blood clot in general, sure. But a rare CVST clot? Even if it wasn't reported via the yellow card at the time, I would assume it was recorded by the hospital as a CVST case. Those cases would have been examined since the side effect emerged.

No , I don't think they would have all been re-examined and reported by the yellow card since the side effects emerged. If someone does a study on it, then they will re-examine but even then I can imagine that there may be under reporting in the elderly.
nordica · 14/05/2021 11:21

If the VITT clots are related to an immune reaction as some of the scientists seem to think, then it would make sense they are more common in younger age groups as their immune system reacts differently to the vaccine anyway. It is well known older people are less likely to suffer any side-effects from the vaccines compared to people 50 and younger.

ScarlettSunset · 14/05/2021 11:25

I have rebooked my jab. When I went on the booking site, I had less choices of venues to choose from than I have previously, and all the places nearest to me (that I know have only been offering AZ) were not available. I have booked for a place that is miles away and initially felt hopeful, but suddenly I feel really worried that I'm being sent so far to still only get offered AZ (but then I can't understand why I wouldn't have been offered one of the nearer places if that was the case).

I am now feeling this weird mix of hopeful and anxious.

Belladonna12 · 14/05/2021 11:27

@nordica

If the VITT clots are related to an immune reaction as some of the scientists seem to think, then it would make sense they are more common in younger age groups as their immune system reacts differently to the vaccine anyway. It is well known older people are less likely to suffer any side-effects from the vaccines compared to people 50 and younger.
Is it well-known? I've heard people say that, but I haven't noticed that is has been demonstrated in any study. Age of onset for an autoimmune disease depends very much on the disease. Some develop after middle age and are not seen that much in younger people.
FFMutha · 14/05/2021 11:32

@ScarlettSunset

I have rebooked my jab. When I went on the booking site, I had less choices of venues to choose from than I have previously, and all the places nearest to me (that I know have only been offering AZ) were not available. I have booked for a place that is miles away and initially felt hopeful, but suddenly I feel really worried that I'm being sent so far to still only get offered AZ (but then I can't understand why I wouldn't have been offered one of the nearer places if that was the case).

I am now feeling this weird mix of hopeful and anxious.

They might be doing first doses for all Pfeizer or Moderna now. My 38 year old friend was told that next week on two specific days our local GP hub clinic is doing first doses of pfeizer all day so i've booked there and cancelled my other 'fingers crossed' appointment. Maybe those of us over 40 that have not yet hd a first dose are being lumped in with the under 40s now. Perhaps ring your GP, my friend said they were very open about what they were doing when (they weren't when I rang 3 weeks ago).
Cherrycee · 14/05/2021 11:32

All of the countries that have reported on the clotting issue are seeing a higher prevalence in younger groups. The trend is the same everywhere, so it's highly unlikely to be an issue with reporting.

Belladonna12 · 14/05/2021 11:55

@Cherrycee

All of the countries that have reported on the clotting issue are seeing a higher prevalence in younger groups. The trend is the same everywhere, so it's highly unlikely to be an issue with reporting.
Considering that all of the countries will be relying on the same random reporting system why is it highly unlikely? It is inevitable that they will look more closely and be more likely to report if someone in their 20s compared with an elderly person and it's a well known problem with yellow card reporting.
FFMutha · 14/05/2021 12:00

Another thing that just occurred to me, if they are now speeding up second doses for over 50s and vulnerable people due to the Indian variant (as reported today), they will be using up a lot of AZ doses quickly.

ScarlettSunset · 14/05/2021 12:14

@FFMutha

Another thing that just occurred to me, if they are now speeding up second doses for over 50s and vulnerable people due to the Indian variant (as reported today), they will be using up a lot of AZ doses quickly.
I heard that this was being considered. I wonder how many people will take it up and bring forward their bookings if they do. It must be very difficult to change so many quickly.
AppleJane · 14/05/2021 12:19

Different day, same old shit.

nordica · 14/05/2021 12:24

Does the general public really know about the clot issue, or worry about it? The change for the under 40s was announced when it was all wall-to-wall election coverage and certainly wasn't headline news anywhere... I'm not sure people who don't specifically look into these things even knew about it?

No one I know in real life is talking about this although I'm not really either as don't want to come across like a conspiracy theorist or anti-vaxer. And a lot of my friends in their 30s actually had their vaccines early for various reasons so I don't want to talk to them and sound like I think they had the "dangerous" vaccine and I had a better, safer one.

Schulte · 14/05/2021 13:23

@nordica

Does the general public really know about the clot issue, or worry about it? The change for the under 40s was announced when it was all wall-to-wall election coverage and certainly wasn't headline news anywhere... I'm not sure people who don't specifically look into these things even knew about it?

No one I know in real life is talking about this although I'm not really either as don't want to come across like a conspiracy theorist or anti-vaxer. And a lot of my friends in their 30s actually had their vaccines early for various reasons so I don't want to talk to them and sound like I think they had the "dangerous" vaccine and I had a better, safer one.

I’ve talked about it to a few people but you do have to tread carefully...
Schulte · 14/05/2021 13:23

@AppleJane

Different day, same old shit.
Are you ok AppleJane? You’re normally more talkative Flowers
Roboticcarrot · 14/05/2021 13:44

@nordica

Does the general public really know about the clot issue, or worry about it? The change for the under 40s was announced when it was all wall-to-wall election coverage and certainly wasn't headline news anywhere... I'm not sure people who don't specifically look into these things even knew about it?

No one I know in real life is talking about this although I'm not really either as don't want to come across like a conspiracy theorist or anti-vaxer. And a lot of my friends in their 30s actually had their vaccines early for various reasons so I don't want to talk to them and sound like I think they had the "dangerous" vaccine and I had a better, safer one.

People i know are aware, but it hasn't been a factor in them choosing to have it or not. Many had Pfizer as they are health care workers so it doesn't apply (although they are still investigating the incidences of enlarged hearts to see if there's a link, so I guess who knows); and as we are in our 30s the others who have already been vaccinated were invited due to health conditions, and they have had both doses so aren't worried now to be honest. I have had both doses of AZ and no regrets, and have been keeping up with developments. As with anything, peoples risk profiles are different, their priorities are and although of course plenty of people are probably not aware, not everyone who is, is letting it put them off.
irresistibleoverwhelm · 14/05/2021 13:59

I had an appointment booked through my GP practice for the 19th for what was described on the original text as "an AZ clinic". Just received a text yesterday saying "Your practice has cancelled your appointment for 19/4. Please rebook for Pfizer clinic starting 25/4 via this link. Apologies".

I'm early 40s. I'm assuming this means the whole clinic is shifting to Pfizer and they're rebooking late AZ appointments as Pfizer for several days later while this is set up?

Can anyone who works in the system confirm why? I wonder if it's related to the news today that they are speeding up second dose appointments? In that case you can see why they would pull AZ stocks from first doses and reallocate it to bringing forward second doses - and switch new first dose appointments all to Pfizer or Moderna.

Belladonna12 · 14/05/2021 14:14

@irresistibleoverwhelm

I had an appointment booked through my GP practice for the 19th for what was described on the original text as "an AZ clinic". Just received a text yesterday saying "Your practice has cancelled your appointment for 19/4. Please rebook for Pfizer clinic starting 25/4 via this link. Apologies".

I'm early 40s. I'm assuming this means the whole clinic is shifting to Pfizer and they're rebooking late AZ appointments as Pfizer for several days later while this is set up?

Can anyone who works in the system confirm why? I wonder if it's related to the news today that they are speeding up second dose appointments? In that case you can see why they would pull AZ stocks from first doses and reallocate it to bringing forward second doses - and switch new first dose appointments all to Pfizer or Moderna.

I think that there is just a big shift around with vaccination clinics to take into account that they will be administering a lot more Pfizer now that over 30s are eligible. Some are still doing AstraZeneca whereas others will be switching to Pfizer. It's just easier for specific clinics to do the same vaccination each day.
Blondiney · 14/05/2021 14:39

@Belladonna12 Is it well-known? I've heard people say that, but I haven't noticed that is has been demonstrated in any study. Age of onset for an autoimmune disease depends very much on the disease. Some develop after middle age and are not seen that much in younger people.

My injector said it today actually. Older people generally have less of a reaction to the Covid vaccines than younger people.

Blondiney · 14/05/2021 14:41

@ScarlettSunset

I have rebooked my jab. When I went on the booking site, I had less choices of venues to choose from than I have previously, and all the places nearest to me (that I know have only been offering AZ) were not available. I have booked for a place that is miles away and initially felt hopeful, but suddenly I feel really worried that I'm being sent so far to still only get offered AZ (but then I can't understand why I wouldn't have been offered one of the nearer places if that was the case).

I am now feeling this weird mix of hopeful and anxious.

Will keep everything crossed for you.
KatySun · 14/05/2021 14:46

Hello just checking in to say I decided to go to my appointment (Scotland) and just be alert to any symptoms as I was struggling with the anxiety of it all, and I was given Pfizer. They were using the AZ for second doses.

Belladonna12 · 14/05/2021 14:48

[quote Blondiney]**@Belladonna12* Is it well-known? I've heard people say that, but I haven't noticed that is has been demonstrated in any study. Age of onset for an autoimmune disease depends very much on the disease. Some develop after middle age and are not seen that much in younger people.*

My injector said it today actually. Older people generally have less of a reaction to the Covid vaccines than younger people.[/quote]
That's still anecdotal though. A few of my DCs friends (late teens to early 20s ) have been vaccinated now and none of them have had reactions beyond a sore arm. Many young people don't even react to Covid itself so perhaps not surprising they don't react to the vaccination. As I said age of onset of autoimmune disease varies greatly according to the disease so no particular reason to think this would affect young people more than old people. Obviously, research in the future may suggest it affects young much more than old but I think it's too early to say at the moment.

Blondiney · 14/05/2021 14:54

@KatySun

Hello just checking in to say I decided to go to my appointment (Scotland) and just be alert to any symptoms as I was struggling with the anxiety of it all, and I was given Pfizer. They were using the AZ for second doses.
Fantastic! The anxiety of AZ was worse in a way than the worry about bloody Covid.
FFMutha · 14/05/2021 15:36

@KatySun

Hello just checking in to say I decided to go to my appointment (Scotland) and just be alert to any symptoms as I was struggling with the anxiety of it all, and I was given Pfizer. They were using the AZ for second doses.
Ahhh so glad your worry is relieved now, this time next week I should be in the same boat.
MiniMaxi · 14/05/2021 15:50

@Rainbowsandstorms you know we were talking about historic number of doses data? I found a Huff Post article that says 1m second doses given up to 5th April - so that’s roughly a month before cut off for latest report.

I think we can assume 8 in 1m is the rough estimate “probably worst case scenario”, which is 1 in 125,000

I’m still not convinced!!

Rainbowsandstorms · 14/05/2021 16:04

@MiniMaxi thank you, that’s helpful though concerning as initial reports seem to suggest the elderly are less effected and they will have made up a large proportion of the second doses. Argh I’ve got no idea what I’m going to do especially with the Indian variant on the rise. Hopefully some kind of decision will be made though all three options now seem to have their own risks.