US-Iran peace agreement discussion, part 4

[RedTagAlan]

Thread 4 for those following and commenting on the above subject.

Did you not read the bit where i said I believe the response was not only to stop the riots but punitive to teach them a lesson?

They taught them a lesson alright. Though I'm surprised you feel able to analyse it to that extent since you "don't actually know what happened", remember.

I said if I had to guess. I don't rely on propaganda, either from western media or any other. I try to look at both sides and come to my own opinion.

I haven’t forgotten this ** and am getting tired of you constantly telling me what I must be thinking or what I’ve forgotten.

Your words Twigs. Maybe don’t do it yourself.

Oh, and i also found your “bunch of wasps” comment quite rude. Didn’t report you though.

It's always good to use discernment, the co author of the Guardian article is Deepa Parent:

It's was in America's and Israel's interest to inflate the figures to manufacture consent for the military action that they were planning.

Remember former CIA director Mike Pompeo tweeted about Mossad agents walking beside the protestors in Iran:
https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/iran-news/article-882149

And Trump can't help but to run his mouth and admitted arming the Kurds in Iran, but told them off for stealing the weapons:
https://www.dw.com/en/iran-war-us-kurds-donald-trump-iraq/a-77216394

The 3117 figure is the figure that Iranians in Iran who experienced the unrest in January were saying, victims including this young girl who was killed whilst going to the pharmacy with her father:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7Rqn7YUw2OU : [translated from Farsi]
"I went out to the pharmacy for the baby
I have powdered milk and go, this is cold syrup.
When I went to buy it, I saw that such people were busy
I parked my car and came to the alley
On the side of the pharmacy, I suddenly saw him with his back to his child
My child's thing fell into my arms, that's it
I put it on my hands, my daughter spilled her blood on my hands
This is my daughter's blood
Compatriot, three-year-old child, I waste salt like this,
I say these are terrorists
What should I do, Dad, I can't stand it now, his mother
His tongue is cut off, my dear, you said, "Dad, my hair is on my head"
I gave you a matte mother's braid to hurt you
To be"

Pompeo's tweet. Experts familiar with the process of Color revolutions and knows about the CIAs history in bringing them about saw the fingerprints all over this.

It's also why there was no uprising by ordinary Iranians against the regime as it was mostly externally driven. The real protests in December by the Bazaars were mostly peaceful.

Yay for you not reporting a post that wasn’t a personal attack anyway. I wasn’t calling an individual a wasp just the group reaction like a swarm of angry wasps when provoked… though the only provocation was me agreeing with another poster’s obviously unpopular opinion.

No uprising by ordinary Iranians against the regime … I’ve heard everything now.

How offensive to all those innocent Iranians murdered for doing exactly that.

Cambridge definition:
uprising
/ˈʌprʌɪzɪŋ/
An uprising is a localized or general revolt where a large group of people join together to fight against an established government, authority, or those in power, often involving sudden public protest or violence. 1, , 4, 5, 6]

Key Characteristics
Goal: To challenge or change leaders, laws, or ruling systems.
Scale: Often starts locally or among ordinary citizens (a "popular" uprising).
Nature: Usually sudden and brief, and can be peaceful or armed. 1, 2, 3, ]

Similar Words
Rebellion
Revolt
Insurrection
Riot 1, 2, 3]

Perhaps, I should have been more particular to account for comprehension.
There was no "popular" large uprising.

Netanyahu's tale that he spun to Trump about there being a large number of Iranians that would rise up and overthrow the Government if Khamenei was killed was a pack of lies. So much so that he is currently

Evidenced by the millions of Iranians and Iraqis who attended Khamenei's funeral.

@BelleHathor ,

This is from Amnesty International, not renowned Israeli or U.S sympathisers.

‘On the six-month anniversary of the January 2026 popular uprising in Iran when security forces carried out mass unlawful killings on an unprecedented scale to crush protests calling for dignity, freedom and an end to the Islamic Republic system, killing thousands of protesters and bystanders between 8-9 January 2026, Diana Eltahawy, Deputy Regional Director for the Middle East and North Africa at Amnesty International said:
“Six months after Iran’s security forces unlawfully killed thousands of men, women and children across the country over a two-day period, the international community’s failure to take meaningful action to pursue international justice is indefensible. It helps perpetuate the cycle of deadly repression in which survivors and victims’ families are denied justice, and future atrocities become all but inevitable. ‘

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2026/07/iran-lack-of-international-justice-six-months-after-january-protest-massacres-risks-further-atrocity-crimes/

‘Evidenced by the millions of Iranians and Iraqis who attended Khamenei's funeral.’

I am not sure they had a lot of choice in that and, besides, look at North Korea, where they all love their Supreme Leader.

Thanks, I'm not going to go back and forth on this, I'm sure in the future just like previous events, the real story of what actually occurred will come out and the facts will be completely different to what you or I may think happened.

I've just fact checked everything BelleHathor posted. They are absolutely right. Check it yourself.

Or Amnesty apparently.

Millions attending the Khameneis funeral is what happens in an authoritarian regime. It’s used for propaganda purposes.

For clarities sake, I'm not defending the IRGC, and anyone suggesting that I am doing so, knowing that they are proscribed in the UK is not exactly acting in good faith.

How are you not defending the IRGC when you literally said, “there was no uprising by ordinary Iranians against the regime as it was mainly externally driven”.

People can disagree with the number of Iranians killed by the IRGC but there was an uprising of Iranian people in January and even the IRGC acknowledge they killed thousands of people. Actually they still are executing dissenters.

They're stating facts. Check them and then tell them they are wrong.

Thank you, unfortunately stating facts are seen as endorsement by some.

I only posted the initial post as I felt you were being unfairly maligned.

As I said in the future we will get more facts about the truth of what actually happened. It's slowly dripping out now about the weapons for the Kurds and the smuggled starlink terminals
https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/israel-smuggled-starlink-systems-into-iran-former-pm-says-2026-06-23/

What precise ‘facts’ are we talking about here?

And what is the issue with Starlink terminals? Surely it’s a good thing to give people access to an uncensored internet?

@BelleHathor, thanks for that. I've learnt some interesting stuff. Appreciate it.

The Independent June 2026: Israel smuggled Starlink into Iran to help protesters but ‘incompetent’ Netanyahu didn’t use them, says former PM

Israel secretly smuggled Starlink internet receivers into Iran to support anti-government protesters five years ago but Benjamin Netanyahu failed to follow through on the plans, former prime minister Naftali Bennett has claimed.

Speaking at the JNS International Policy Summit in Jerusalem, Mr Bennett, who served as prime minister from 2021 to 2022, said he had initiated a "process of acquiring and smuggling into Iran tens of thousands of Starlink receptors that would allow continuity of the internet and social networks".

Iranian authorities have previously accused Israel and the US of smuggling these devices to undermine its security. Mr Bennett explained the devices were intended to enable protesters to coordinate and ultimately topple the Iranian government.

"Unfortunately, the current incompetent Israeli government stopped doing that," he said. "And when the protest happened, that infrastructure was not there."

Iranian authorities have a history of shutting down the public’s access to the internet during periods of unrest.

This includes during deadly nationwide protests in January and throughout the US and Israeli war with Iran that began at the end of February.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-smuggled-starlink-iran-protests-b3001306.html

"WASHINGTON—The Trump administration covertly sent thousands of Starlink terminals into Iran after the regime’s brutal crackdown on demonstrations last month, U.S. officials said, an effort to keep dissidents online following Tehran’s stifling of internet access.

After Iranian authorities smothered mounting unrest in January by killing thousands of protesters and severely cutting internet connectivity, the U.S. smuggled roughly 6,000 of the satellite-internet kits into the country, the first time the U.S. has directly sent Starlink into Iran.
The State Department had purchased nearly 7,000 Starlink terminals in earlier months—with most bought in January—to help antiregime activists circumvent internet shut-offs in Iran, officials said. The purchase came after senior Trump administration appointees decided to divert some funds from other internet-freedom initiatives inside Iran to the purchasing of Starlink terminals instead.
President Trump was aware of the deliveries, officials said, but they didn’t know if he or someone else directly approved of the plan.

Tehran has repeatedly accused Washington, without evidence, of playing a role in fomenting popular dissent and organizing last month’s nationwide demonstrations in the country of 90 million people. Iranians were protesting years of economic mismanagement, a weakening currency and hard-line rule.
The U.S. has denied any connection to the uprising, though the Starlink operation shows the Trump administration has done more to support antiregime efforts than has been previously known.

The White House declined to comment.
As protests swept Iran, Trump encouraged Iranians to continue demonstrating against the regime, promising them “help is on its way.” Analysts said more Iranians took to the streets expecting Washington’s support in the form of airstrikes on government and military targets. No such attack came.

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/u-s-smuggled-thousands-of-starlink-terminals-into-iran-after-protest-crackdown-69a8c74f

See how combative they get just because I agreed with you.
Again the pivot to criticising me is all because I agreed with you that "People have to realise that the choice isn’t Trump bad/Iran good or vice versa".
I call nonsense! It wasn't a pivot, but a natural expansion of the discussion.

@Twiglets1 the reason why posters pushed back is not because you agreed with @Newbutoldfather because many, including myself agreed with what was said. It's what we have been saying all along and what the disclaimers were all about. I think the disclaimers were along the lines of "this does not mean that I support Iran" (or similar words).

The pushback (you call it criticism) is because of this accusation:
"Some on here will never criticise Iran which you will notice if you hang around for a while.* All they can say is Trump is bad *(which often he is)."

Then you claim that disclaimers aren't necessary yet harangue posters to make a disclaimer on where they stand re Trump bad/Iran good.

What is this but asking for a disclaimer?
A bit of balance in holding the IRGC to account for their actions is.
Why, when posters have previously said that they don't support the Iranian regime?

Which includes not minimising their behaviour or immediately pivoting to Trump when they are criticised.
No one person gets to dictate what people have to include in their posts; it's a public forum. Given the title of the thread, it is not beyond the bounds of understanding for posters to look at one set of actions vis a vis those of the other actors in this on/off war/notwar/yes it's war. That's not "immediately pivoting to Trump when they are criticised", it's providing context for a holistic analysis/opinion.

Thus endeth my attempt to put "Trump bad ≠ Iran good" to bed, as it's both wasting people's time and minimising the effort people put into researching and posting on here.

I think you misunderstood what I wrote.
I meant dirty in environmental terms, which, I think is what @Newbutoldfather meant too. When I said that China does the dirty work for the west, I meant that much of the dirty processes, mining, manufacturing, etc take place in China and they then export the products to the west, who can tell the world how successful they have been at cutting emissions compared to....China.
I wouldn't say that gaining raw materials or trading and exporting their good are dirty tricks. They have simply taken advantage of their situation and the short sightedness/foolishness/greed of the west. You could argue that they have taken advantage of other, poorer nations for sure but there has, at least, been some economic and infrastructure benefit to these countries. They have been nowhere near as ruthless and aggressive as the US. When the US wants something, they tend to just grab it-see recent examples of Venezuela and now Iran/Gaza/Lebanon.