Should the international community sanction Israel over settler violence in West Bank?

[FloralDeerPattern]

The problem of Israeli terrorism is getting worse and worse. Just over the past few weeks amongst other things Israeli terrorists have killed multiple people, commited sexual assault, beaten and threatened to rape young Palestinian girls, continually attacked the residents and property of the only remaining fully Christian town in the West Bank, stolen 100s of sheep from the Bedouin community, beaten activists who are there to provide a protective presence to Palestinians, set fire to property.

Palestinians don't have the right to defend themselves from this violent, rapidly escalating Israeli terrorism. They can't arrest and detain the Israeli terrorists. They are sitting ducks with no means of protecting themselves from beatings and sexual violence. Is it time that the international community steps in and sanctions Israel until they can control their obvious terrorism problem? What else can be done to try and protect innocent people from this escalating Israeli violence?

The Israeli government are completely secure in the knowledge there are no reprecussions no matter what they do. They have carefully curated a narrative of defense when they are attacking. It has been a masterclass in propaganda really.

I actually think the long term is not as positive for Israel. Once they have ethnically cleansed the West Bank they will be left with a population whose violence and crimes have been aided and abetted by the judicial and military forces. How to bring them under control is going to be an interesting prospect.

Plus I don't think people really will ever forget. There have been many reports of Isralies attacked on holidays this summer. (For the record I completely condemn this) . The war crimes are there to see.

I have also been on these boards for a while. And clearly remember people posting that life in Palestine was all rosy. People posting pictures of shops full of goods, chocolate etc. That cafes were stuffed with food and that there were hotels running. That Gaza was only a bit damaged, ie a kitchen cabinet door might be hanging off, not the total destruction and misery that exists there now. Propaganda at it’s finest!

I wish I had your faith in humanity that the world won't forget and I sincerely hope I am wrong on this. I know I won't and my kids won't but what about their kids. If the Palestinians are driven into Egypt, for example, they will be known as Palestinians for a while, then Egyptian Palestinians until eventually they will just be known as Egyptians.

Fuck me are we really debating blood libel. This is disgusting.

'We' aren't. Some of us are just trying to discuss settler violence and the state backed attempted ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their land.

There are 15.6 million Palestinians world wide (roughly half live in Palestine) . A huge population really.

We will never forget what has been done to them .

The future war crime trials will bring more details the world doesn't even know yet.

I sincerely hope you are right. All Palestinians still identify as Palestinians today despite whatever passport they have. This is due to the hope that one day they will be free in a country of their own which is still believed by most of them. What happens when that hope is gone though which is exactly what Israel is trying to do.

The suggestion was there that Israel failed to take action “for their own reasons”. It was said twice in case anyone missed it the first time.

I asked for evidence that Israel deliberately allowed it to happen but of course none was forthcoming from the poster who made the accusation. Because there is no evidence that it was allowed to happen, only that mistakes were made.

Lots of terrorist actions are followed by reports that point out where mistakes were made. If mistakes weren’t made it probably couldn’t have happened.

Even in the UK we have awful things happen that were preventable (grooming gangs for example). Were mistakes made? Yes. Is anyone suggesting/implying that UK leaders allowed it to happen for their own reasons? No.

I think part of the issue here is that it is hard to know what is really going on in Gaza or the West Bank as Israel controls media access.

But it is hard to give Israel the benefit of the doubt here, given that they are preventing full access.

Also, to the person who said Smotrich and Ben G’vir aren’t representative of Israel, they do have two important cabinet posts. Can you imagine if our chancellor and number two in the home office had made clear racist statements?!

I think that Netanyahu is making hay while the sun shines as he knows, whatever he does, he has Trump pretty much on side, and most of Europe (including UK) won’t take on Trump and Israel by sanctioning them unilaterally.

I think the Israelis would have to take actions against settler violence if the republicans got in in the U.S. Public opinion in the U.S is now running strongly against Israel, for the first time in decades (if not ever).

*if the democrats got in

You can’t assume the worst of a country about every accusation because “it’s hard to give them the benefit of the doubt”. Don’t we need evidence not assumptions?

Or rather you can but it’s racist or in the case of Israel, antisemitic.

@Newbutoldfather Agree with you that the IDF would behave differently under a different government with regard to the settlers. To return to the thread topic.

@Twiglets1 ,

‘Or rather you can but it’s racist or in the case of Israel, antisemitic.’

Then I must be one of that much hyped but rare species-the self-hating Jew.

Did you read the reason why I said it was hard to give Israel the benefit of the doubt? If the IDF is the ‘most moral army in the world’ and there’s nothing to see in settler violence, why not give international journalists full and unfettered access?

Israel actually has a pretty free press at the point of publication, but they are restricting access a lot now for spurious reasons.

Actually the whole reason the grooming gang scandal was such a scandal is because of accusations that the police and social services did know it was happening and did nothing to stop it. Not the best example but I know what you mean.

If you have something to say to a particular poster then say it to them.

It certainly wasn’t me posting pictures of shops full of goods or suggesting that the destruction in Gaza is no worse than a kitchen cabinet door hanging off. I think you are exaggerating hugely with what was said but it’s also another diversion from the main topic of this thread which is supposed to be about Settler violence.

A bit like how some people like to say Israel knew it was about to happen but let it happen anyway.

Maybe not the best example but I couldn’t think of any country apart from Israel that has been accused of willingly letting terrorists enter their country with the intention of raping/murdering/kidnapping their innocent civilians.

My comment wasn’t directed at you Twigs, so stand down!

Was merely pointing out the fact that there was a lot of hatred directed at the Palestinians from the Pro Israeli side too.

And I’m not exaggerating at all.

I’m sure you know Jewish people can be antisemitic like people of any race or religion can be racist even towards their own race/culture.

To be clear I’m not accusing you of being antisemitic, I’m finding your posts quite thoughtful and interesting.

Lack of media access is one thing and yes, the Israel government should be criticised for that - & lots of other things too like enabling the Settler violence.

But I don’t think it’s right to assume the worst about any country on any issue just based on speculation and with no real evidence. To believe the worst is to accept any negative comment unquestioningly - no matter how implausible - because you’ve already decided to assume the worst.

We have to engage our brains on the subject of whether it’s likely that the Israel government or top military deliberately allowed 7/10/23 to go ahead. On the balance of probability considering how extremely defensive they are toward their civilians, it is extremely unlikely.

Actually there's plenty of conspiracy theories about 9/11. If one day there is a whistle blower and it does turn out to be true, I would be shocked but probably not as shocked as you. Until such a time it is just a conspiracy theory.

I think part of the issue here is that it is hard to know what is really going on in Gaza or the West Bank as Israel controls media access.

I think that this is going to be a big issue when it comes to charging them with war crimes in future, even when determining how many people they have killed. Currently Israel have control of at least 70% of the Gaza strip and are merrily bulldozing away the bodies of their victims and evidence of any crimes completely unsupervised and unimpeeded.

@Twiglets1 ,

‘I’m sure you know Jewish people can be antisemitic like people of any race or religion can be racist even towards their own race/culture.’

I mean it’s theoretically possible to hate your self because of your ethnicity/religion, but I would say if is very rare. Out of all the Jews who have reservations about what Israel is doing in the world today, I would say 1% tops are antisemitic/self-hating. The other 99% are worried about what is being done by ‘The Jewish State’ in their name (well, it’s not strictly in their name, but there is quite a lot to unpick there!).

‘But I don’t think it’s right to assume the worst about any country on any issue just based on speculation and with no real evidence. To believe the worst is to accept any negative comment unquestioningly - no matter how implausible - because you’ve already decided to assume the worst.’

There aren’t many reasons to ban and harass the media if you aren’t doing anything wrong. And there are plenty of reports of them doing plenty wrong, many from solid sources, including IDF whistleblowers who have been very disturbed by what they have seen.

‘We have to engage our brains on the subject of whether it’s likely that the Israel government or top military deliberately allowed 7/10/23 to go ahead. On the balance of probability considering how extremely defensive they are toward their civilians, it is extremely unlikely. ‘

You know I totally agree with you here. I don’t think Israel ever willingly sacrifice their own people.

And it’s just a conspiracy theory against Israel too but were you shocked at hearing it repeated on MN as if it could be true? On the evidence of - a Jewish man said so.

Yeah we agree on the main point. And the smaller point which is that Israel is wrong to have banned independent media access. It made some sense when the war was full on, less sense now.

Anyone can be racist even towards their own race/culture. It’s weird to me but I know it’s a thing. Like some people seem to have a bias against white middle class people even though they are white, middle class themselves. Maybe they feel guilty for historical events. I don’t get that as I don’t feel guilty for what other people have done, just try to live a moral life myself. Anyway, we go off track.