Deeper understanding of why Israel was created

[NameChangedUnderstandingGained]

I have recently visited Poland. Did a lot of reading. Visited a lot of historic sites and museums.

Oh My Gosh - I now REALLY understand why the British Mandate in Palestine created Israel. Even after the war ended Jews were still ostracised, blamed, killed, turned out of lands, unwelcome in many, many nations in Europe. The number of Jews were decimated, many survivors had to use assumed fake identification to survive, some fled to America, to Australia and Europe still wasn't safe or friendly for them hence Israel. One little bit of land where Jewish people originated, where the religion was first founded thousands of years before. A 2 state solution would have been good if both agreed and both wanted to live in peace and prosper. Israel never felt safe so built up a massive defence, built up a country and industry and wanted to prosper.

There is much harm that has been done to many peoples in history. However, the holocaust was unique. I have visited places where Jews no longer exist, they have all gone, millions died, the liquidation of Jews throughout lands, nothing Israel has done in a war is the same as this. The gas chambers, the extermination camps, the work until to drop then we kill you camps. It really is on another scale.

I am now totally pro keeping a land for Jewish people. I don't agree with settler violence but I do agree and understand why Israel needs to defend itself from terrorists who wish to wipe Jewish people from the earth just like the Nazi did.

Nothing. I saw a post go up, had a look and thought I need to answer what was an obviously Islamaphobic post. You know, the kind that would have been instantly deleted, quite rightly, if it had been antisemitic.

Are you suggesting some kind of double standard. I've seen some antisemitic posts stay up. The post that the PP was responding to about understanding why people are antisemitic is pretty unpleasant.

So you're saying it is okay to be racist and bigoted if you think someone else is first?

No that isn't remotely what I said.

You said they were responding to a previous post which was unpleasant. I pulled them up for being bigoted, not directly, I didn't call them that. The fact that you were questioning my post sounds like you're trying to explain and defend the bigotry as justified.

That's a leap that could get you over the grand canyon.

Peaceful Islam good.
Radical Islam isn't good.
Thats just factual.

"Africa's Sahel region is the global epicenter of militant Islamist terrorism, accounting for over half of all worldwide terrorism-related deaths.Major Active Groups"

Sadly, the spread of radical islam accounts for worldwide terrorism. In Africa, the Middle East, Europe. We are talking NOW. Not the crusades which were also bad.

https://www.google.com/search?q=islamic+terrorism+and+africa&client=ms-android-samsung-ss&hs=8xCB&sca_esv=4511509f43aa6d52&sxsrf=APpeQns5rBwaqyuSRPfCyCCV9ikvDVsLig%3A1788106288879&ei=MFaUat-eNcmDhbIP_ZOSmA0&biw=384&bih=693&oq=islamic+terrorism+and+africa&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhxpc2xhbWljIHRlcnJvcmlzbSBhbmQgYWZyaWNhMgYQABgWGB4yBhAAGBYYHjILEAAYgAQYigUYhgMyCxAAGIAEGIoFGIYDMgUQABjvBTIIEAAYgAQYogRIpmVQjgxYhGBwAXgAkAEEmAG4AaAB_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&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#lfId=ChxjMe

Oh, okay. Can you explain what you meant.

Radical anyone is pretty shit. Do you agree with Meir Kahane?

I think your argument only works if, in time periods you point out, only Jews were persecuted.

The Holocaust stands out as one of the most horrific and shameful events in modern history. Antisemitism, driven by the corrupted, sick minds of the inventors, clearly drove the whole endeavor. They wanted to destroy Jews simply because they were Jewish, that much is clear.

When we look back at other times though, like the progroms in Russia that you mentioned for example, Jews were not the only group being targeted. Other groups were also under fire, and actually being killed like serfs and peasants for example.

My point being that if we focus only on one group durning a time period, we will see only their suffering. If however, we look at the whole of society at that time, we get a better idea of what was actually going on, and therefore, what that actually means for the group we are focused on.

@AlonsoMosley "When we look back at other times though, like the progroms in Russia that you mentioned for example, Jews were not the only group being targeted. Other groups were also under fire, and actually being killed like serfs and peasants for example."

The word pogrom (a Russian term meaning to wreak havoc or demolish violently) came into widespread international and local usage to describe targeted violence specifically directed against Jewish communities including murder, rape and looting of property on an industrial scale. Russia's large Jewish population was forced to live within a specific restricted region known as the Pale of Settlement where similar atrocities were an every day occurrence. After the revolution there were roughly 1,500 pogroms resulting in the mass murder of tens of thousands of Jewish civilians. Tens of thousands. Yes, there was of course other brutalities but Jews suffered far and away the most, as indeed they have wherever they've tried to live.

I am here to say that historical context really matters, not here to negate the experience of any group,

While recognizing that 1,500 pogroms resulting in the mass murder of tens of thousands of Jewish civilians, and of course the pain of destruction that it entailed, but reducing the suffering of other groups in that same place and time to Yes, there was of course other brutalities but... implies that the same destruction meted out to them is "less than" in importance.

Millions of people died in that time period, in that place. Who were the others and why did they die is an important question?

I do not claim that anti semitism does not exist.

I do claim that at certain times in history, Jews were an also not an only. And therefore, in those times, they fell under the umbrella of a much larger event that was targeting many different strata of society at that time, not just Jews.

That matters. It matters that little Jewish kids know that.

It could be claimed that to be poor peasants or serfs in the Russia of that time was much more dangerous than being a Jew.

At other times in history, like the WW11, it was extremely dangerous to be a Jew.

What I meant by what?

I tried to get you into conversarion? I responde to your comment on a public internet forum on which anyone can post and you immediately started getting aggresive and implying that I'm racist. What I meant was that I was unsure what your comment had to do with the thread topic.

I think you're being disingenuous. Let me ask you then. Why did you jump onto a comment when I pulled someone up for what I thought was a bigoted comment.

Because I had a question about it. It's not complicated.

As I said, I think you're being disingenuous. You jumped in on a post where I was answering what I saw as bigoted post from another poster. What is it you were expecting? What were you fishing for?

I'm not fishing for anything. I don't see why you're desperate to assign me some sinister motive for a simple comment. If you want to accuse me of something just say it, otherwise move on.

A simple comment. Ha ha. It was a loaded comment intended to elicit a response. I've given you plenty of opportunity to follow it through but you have chosen not to. Lets leave it there then.

For Christ's sake there is nothing to follow through. I don't know what it is that you're so desperate for me to say.

I’m so glad you went to Poland op, and I wish more people would and gain the insight it’s given you.

You are quite right that a huge amount of double standards exists on this board.
There are several blatantly Islamophobic/racist posts about Arabs and a very offensive one stating that 'there is no genocide in Gaza'. very few people even seem to notice. Meanwhile, posts that are perceived as antisemitic get immediately reported and deleted.
None of this actually helps Jewish people in general and the actions of the state of Israel certainly do not.

Only a racist links the actions of the government of Israel to the lives of Jewish people outside Israel. That is pure antisemitism. It's not offensive to say there is no genocide in Gaza. Its a perfectly factual and legitimate position. You can disagree with it but its not offensive to say it.