Deeper understanding of why Israel was created

[NameChangedUnderstandingGained]

I have recently visited Poland. Did a lot of reading. Visited a lot of historic sites and museums.

Oh My Gosh - I now REALLY understand why the British Mandate in Palestine created Israel. Even after the war ended Jews were still ostracised, blamed, killed, turned out of lands, unwelcome in many, many nations in Europe. The number of Jews were decimated, many survivors had to use assumed fake identification to survive, some fled to America, to Australia and Europe still wasn't safe or friendly for them hence Israel. One little bit of land where Jewish people originated, where the religion was first founded thousands of years before. A 2 state solution would have been good if both agreed and both wanted to live in peace and prosper. Israel never felt safe so built up a massive defence, built up a country and industry and wanted to prosper.

There is much harm that has been done to many peoples in history. However, the holocaust was unique. I have visited places where Jews no longer exist, they have all gone, millions died, the liquidation of Jews throughout lands, nothing Israel has done in a war is the same as this. The gas chambers, the extermination camps, the work until to drop then we kill you camps. It really is on another scale.

I am now totally pro keeping a land for Jewish people. I don't agree with settler violence but I do agree and understand why Israel needs to defend itself from terrorists who wish to wipe Jewish people from the earth just like the Nazi did.

No, in my opinion discrimination against Jews worse, and thats without even addressing Jewish rights in the OPT and Gaza. Which barely sometimes equate to not being pulled apart limb from limb.

Can that all be blamed on Israel though or is some of it attributable to different values, lifestyles, outlooks and I have to say intelligence levels will be impacted on this which have to be taken into account.

I’m obviously going to get flamed for this but I found it quite chilling how accounts of historic violent attacks by Arabs in the region were so similar to those carried out on Oct 7th and recently in Syria. Doesn’t seem to be much progression in that respect.

Agree could be down to different lifestyle and other cultural factors, but still needs looking into by any responsible government

TBH you have to wonder how Israel has resources for much else other than constantly having to protect their citizens from multiple terrorist entities next door and the ongoing threat from hostile surrounding countries.

Imagine what they could have achieved for ALL their citizens if they’d been left to live in peace for the last 77 years.

There’s something inevitable about posts like this - a few pages of (mostly) rational debate, but by page 10 people then saying bluntly what they think.

Do you also describe other countries experiencing war or instability like Afghanistan or Sudan as failed projects? Is Ukraine a failed state? Or is it only the world’s one Jewish majority state that you consider to be a ‘failed project’?

The Palestinians (along with Lebanese, Syrians, Samaritans and other Levantine groups) are not "Arabs", their DNA shows that they are descendants of Bronze Age populations/Canaanites/Philistines in the region with 80+% matching DNA and extremely low admixture. Indicating that not only did they not arrive recently to the region they've been there for centuries.

This lie was popularised in the 1980s by the highly discredited Joan Peters in her book "from time immemorial" which used lies to try and say that the Palestinians came from outside historical Palestine in order to elevate the claim of external Jewish populations "reclaiming" the Israel created in 1948. Wonderful article debunking all her lies here:

^https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v07/n02/ian-gilmour/pseudo-travellers^

TED talk by Nathan Pearson on the DNA makeup of the region.

https://www.ted.com/talks/nathaniel_pearson_the_splendid_tapestry_how_dna_reveals_truths_ancient_lasting
Note - the group with the lowest percentage of DNA connection to the region and highest admixture is the European Ashkenazi Jewish population. So playing the DNA connection game is not a "win".

When the victim
becomes the bully.

Not the most insightful or thought provoking response to my post.

Still interested to hear why you feel Israel is a failed state?

Even if that were true it would not mean Israel was a failed state. So please explain.

You don’t need insight you don’t need to provoke thoughts. It’s plain to see but you won’t be able to see it or understand I don’t think.

A 'failed state' actually has a meaning.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state

If you look at the failed state index Israel ranks highly for stability in the region.

So, again, why do you think Israel is a failed state?

Busy, busy tonight.

Who is?

That is an incredible answer. just watch any video of Palestine right now and tell me the cause of that wasn’t the failed state of Israel.
unstable readership

I've seen all sorts of videos of Gaza. I've see Hamas murdering their own citizens for example. I'd say that's the definition of a failed state.

What’s your understanding of a “failed state”? Repeating a claim isn’t going to make it true.
Any other states in the world you’d like to declare as “failed” because you think their leadership is unstable (i.e. you don’t agree with their actions)?

Tumbleweed!

Help us understand?

The poster made a claim using words they didn't understand "failed state". They were shown what that term really means but they aren't adult enough to admit they used an incorrect term.

It will be tumbleweed because the claim is incorrect.