Deeper understanding of why Israel was created

[NameChangedUnderstandingGained]

I have recently visited Poland. Did a lot of reading. Visited a lot of historic sites and museums.

Oh My Gosh - I now REALLY understand why the British Mandate in Palestine created Israel. Even after the war ended Jews were still ostracised, blamed, killed, turned out of lands, unwelcome in many, many nations in Europe. The number of Jews were decimated, many survivors had to use assumed fake identification to survive, some fled to America, to Australia and Europe still wasn't safe or friendly for them hence Israel. One little bit of land where Jewish people originated, where the religion was first founded thousands of years before. A 2 state solution would have been good if both agreed and both wanted to live in peace and prosper. Israel never felt safe so built up a massive defence, built up a country and industry and wanted to prosper.

There is much harm that has been done to many peoples in history. However, the holocaust was unique. I have visited places where Jews no longer exist, they have all gone, millions died, the liquidation of Jews throughout lands, nothing Israel has done in a war is the same as this. The gas chambers, the extermination camps, the work until to drop then we kill you camps. It really is on another scale.

I am now totally pro keeping a land for Jewish people. I don't agree with settler violence but I do agree and understand why Israel needs to defend itself from terrorists who wish to wipe Jewish people from the earth just like the Nazi did.

Forgot to mention black (various races and ethnicities actually) and mixed race people and too late to edit.

Jews have been persecuted pretty much everywhere they lived throughout history. They have lived among Arabs for well over a thousand years, but this tended to end with Arabs masacring Jews - see the fate of the Jewish population of Baghdad which was once one-third Jewish. Likewise Tehran, much of North Africa, and Azerbaijan all the way over to Tajikistan, and famously Saudi Arabia itself (historically) - all of which once had thriving Jewish communities. Arabs and Pro-Palestinians never acknowledge this.

The need for a defensible Jewish homeland was critical, so why not where their historical roots lie? There is ample archaeological and written evidence to support this.

The obsession with the "genocide" and "colonisation" of Israel is baffling. They are merely re-establishing themselves in an area in which they have always had a presence.

Where were all the bleeding hearts and do-gooders when Nagorno-Karabakh was ethnically cleansed just a couple of years ago? 150,000 people turfed out in one go by the Azeris. The ethnic cleansing perpetrated by Arab Janjaweed militias in Sudan resulted in the deaths of an unknown number of people estimated at 200-400,000 - not a peep! The current slaughter of Christians in Northern Nigeria by Boko Haram - nothing!

I really don't understand why the Israelis are being singled out in this evil manner. They are merely defending the safe area they so desperately need. Nowhere else has ever been safe for them.

My thread is about understanding why Israel was 'created' after visiting numerous places where Jews were hounded out, killed and so had nowhere. Palestinians aren't hounded out of the middle east. If Hamas etc just stopped terrorism? The conflict that is currently paused/ceasefire was started due to yet another terrorist attack, a massive genocide attempt on Jewish people again.

After the second world war many countries suffered great losses and moved on but Palestinians don't move on from the same time. They are keeping it going with terrorism. I didn't say how things are is perfect but understand why it was created and why Jews will not just let themselves be killed and will fight back against terrorists. But it looks like some people want all of the middle east regardless of other religions/cultures/peoples in the area.

No one cares which makes me think it's because they hate jews.

Don't you think it will last? Do you worry that the terrorists might start it all up again?

Agreed which caused the problem - it wasn’t our land to give.

question though, where did they originate from in the first place, like why don’t they have a land to call their own? Always wondered that

They do, it's Judea, Jews from Judea, which is where Israel is. They aren't some European colonisers like the British, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch etc were hundreds of years ago when off they went around the world. The Jews just returned to where they came from originally years and years before.

Jews could have been supported to live in Palestine without giving them the mandate to do what they have done. It never needed to be a zionists state to give Jewish people safety.

We (Europeans) should be deeply ashamed for the way we treated the Jewish population and as Brits we should be equally ashamed of the way we allowed Palestinians to be treated just so that we didn’t have to have the Jews in our own lands. The whole thing is disgusting. (And this is why we protest significantly more about the Palestinian genocide than other atrocities in the world. It’s our fault.)

So you went all the way to Poland, visited auchwitz and came to the conclusion that genocide is actually ok? I think you need to go again and perhaps give your head a real good wobble.

@CopperWhite ‘It’s our fault.’

It’s not ‘our’ fault. If you want to accept any blame then go ahead, but own it yourself.

Israel 💛

It’s not ‘our fault’ - alrhough it’s good to know the history, that view perpetuates the idea that other countries and peoples are our responsibility/business to influence/control.

one of the most shocking things to me has been seeing people (I have not seen this on MN but on social media) saying Jews should ‘go back to Poland’. These people are either seriously malevolently antisemitic or total ignoramuses who don’t know any history and shouldn’t be allowed to attend a march or protest, knowing so little.

I've said this from day one, people need to learn about history. It's all in there.

This is a harsh comment but I do view any anti iraseli, pro Palestine viewpoint as uneducated.

The Jews have had enough persecution and I do not blame them one bit for taking a stand, enough now. Leave them alone.

In terms of Palestine, hamas could have protected its people for the war it asked for but chose not to.

Jesus and its people like you that i am referring too. There has been no genocide in Gaza.

Absolutely, I understand why Israel was created and why Jews want to protect themselves- that historical context is clear. My point isn’t denying that right. The concern is that in the current conflict, entire families, including children, are being killed, starved, and trapped. Defending a population doesn’t override international law or basic humanity. Condemning attacks on civilians doesn’t mean denying Israel’s right to exist or Jewish safety- it’s about holding all parties accountable and preventing unnecessary suffering.

The UN says it was.

Israeli human rights groups B’Tselem and Physicians for Human Rights Israel say Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. HRW accuses Israel of deliberately depriving Palestinians of essentials like water. Leading genocide scholars and organisations agree Israel’s actions meet the legal definition under the 1948 Genocide Convention.

Oh I’m so sorry the world won’t let you get away with murdering innocent people en masse … throw all the tantrums in the world but the worst genocide in modern history has been committed/on going in Palestine and if after visiting Auchswitz you can’t see that then you’re very much part of the problem and reason why atrocities are allowed to go on.

Yes but @crackadawn & OP say there’s no Genocide because they’ve been to Auchswitz so they must be right. The absurdity of this thread. It’s actually embarrassing OP you should close the thread.

There are lots of ethnic groups throughout the world who don't have a land to call their own. The political division of the world's geography into nation states never did or could correspond neatly with the division of its peoples into ethnicities. The idea that every ethnic group "deserves" a country, so it's OK to kick Palestinians off their land to make one for the jews, is a fiction that has been invented solely for the benefit of Israel.

Actually give your head a wobble. Nowhere did I say genocide was ok. What is it with poster who make things up. I have been reading some of these threads which seem to end in arguments and lots of posts where people make up what others say. Why do that? What is the point.

Again what are you waffling on about. Have you been drinking something since you are imagining things that haven't been said.

I don't think you can really put it that way when millions of Iranians are being contained in a tiny space and just hit missile after missile

Reading the Bible alongside history to put everything in perspective

Reading about the conflicts between their two Abrahamic religions from the very start - that is your second line of reading