South Africa has invoked the Genocide Convention against Israel over Gaza

[HeidiInTheBigCity]

The entire filing is 84 pages long and, frankly, took me several hours to read - it's well worth the effort, though, in that it is rather (painfully at times) clinical and devastating in equal measure: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf

Go, South Africa!

It might not male that much of a difference in the short term - but: to see the former victims of Apartheid take the lead on the world stage, and offer support (the way they - after multiple decades of campaigning and pressure ... it's not as though world leaders hated Apartheid South Africa "by default") is just ... a little spark of light within the darkness!

El Salvador has the unfortunate title of being the country with the highest murder rate in the world

Globally, the highest reported rape rate per 100,000 people was documented in Botswana (92.93), followed by Lesotho (82.68) and South Africa (72.10).

The countries with the highest rates of HIV include Eswatini, Lesotho, and South Africa

3 quick searches into google and none of your sentences are true (they’re not the highest numbers in the world)

btw it’s not you who have to take advice.

Ps. Nice to see your hate speech about the HIV people.

Shocking, I’ve also seen young IDF wearing a t shirt of a pregnant woman with the words “1 shot 2 kills” it’s so abhorrent, how did they grow up with such zero moral code ?

pogrom, (Russian: “devastation,” or “riot”), a mob attack, either approved or condoned by authorities, against the persons and property of a religious, racial, or national minority.

Pograms can be against any group.

I am not saying Hamas has potentially misappropriated funds. But do you think Singapore and Hong Kong would have prospered if they had their electricity supply intermittent cut off or their power plant bombed by another country.

How would have Singapore and Hong Kong thrived without being allowed their own ports or airports - say a country bombed their airport or blocked their trade through ports

all this was prior 2023

and remember- Netanyahu has said he preferred having Hamas in Gaza so could treat it as enemy- rather than work with PLO in a 2 state solution

https://mondoweiss.net/2022/08/gazas-only-power-plant-just-shut-down-as-israeli-airstrikes-continue/

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2020/12/27/gaza-airport-the-legacy-of-a-palestinian-dream

https://www.972mag.com/why-the-gaza-port-matters/

The idea that a people that haven't (at various points in the last 20 years) even been allowed paper, crayons, pasta, chocolate and tomato puree, could have been another Singapore is laughable. They aren't allowed an airport, or a port and all goods entering are scrutinized. The Israeli government had been (historically, not now...) allowing in just enough food that poorly don't die, but not enough that they thrive. Literally working out how many calories Gaza need.

You do realise that is precisely what the Gazan administration want to do and have vowed to do to Israel?

So what is the solution?

Thank god SA have came out and said this. It totally needed saying and now it has been.

Of course, Israels allies eg the USA and unfortunately us, will be rushing out to defend them and decry SA for everything they can fling at them.
The word genocide has been said on the world stage now and Israels supporters know they cant defend the genocide that we all know is happening right now, so they attack anyone who says it instead.

Much like what happened straightaway in this thread.

It drives me bonkers.

Why do people not see what's actually happening here?

@Agustus Exactly.

According to this Human Rights Watch report, Israeli govt is carrying out the following actions in Gaza:

• Wilfuly impeding humanitarian assistance
• Razing agricultural areas
• Deliberately blocking food, fuel and water delivery
• Depriving the civilian population of objects essential to their survival

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/18/israel-starvation-used-weapon-war-gaza

Makes for grim reading and I'm honestly not surprised the genocide convention has been invoked.

Oct 7th doesn’t really fit the definition of a “progrom”. For one, it’s not a mob attacking a minority because Israeli-Jewish are the majority not a minority. Secondly, Hamas is not a state authority, they are a terrorist organisation. Thirdly, Oct 7th wasn’t against any one race, nationality or religion now we know the indentities of the victims included all races, many nationalities and many religions, including the same religion and race as the Hamas attackers themselves.

Oct 7th was worse than a “progrom”, it was an indiscriminate massacre of mostly innocent civilians including children which is a war crime and atrocity.

What does fit the definition of a “progrom” is the violent settler attacks in the West Bank. These are often done with the IDF either helping the settlers or standing by, encouraging the settlers and ready to intervene if any Palestinians resist their homes being looted, demolished, their farms destroyed, land stolen and them driven off carrying a few possessions. The death rate from a “Progrom” is usually less than with an outright massacre as well.

They couldn’t even get in enough medical supplies or baby formula. Many Gazans have died due to lack of medical supplies in Gaza and being denied permission to travel to an Israeli hospital for treatment. Mothers have talked about using the “Metro” (name for the Hamas smuggling tunnels) and ending up “in debt slavery” to Hamas because that was the only way they could get infant formula for babies with milk allergies.

I think a cracking start would be to make a distinction between sabre rattling rhetoric and actually slaughtering over 20,000 people.

I think there is a lot of hypocrisy here. For Israelis, this is like the Second World War.

The Second World War analogy might not work out in the way you intend. On October 6th 2023, the situation was that a powerful Israel had the dispossessed Palestinian population pinned down in open air prison camps. It was already acknowledged as an international scandal. After October 7th, Israel cut off water and electricity to the open air prison camps and launched a campaign of ethnic cleansing. There are at least 20000 Palestinians dead so far, and many more suffering.

Hi all, OP here!

I am sorry for "posting and running" - as stated on here previously: I am really struggling increasingly, on a personal level, with "posting on the internet" in a tone that will not get me perma-banned on any platform I post to! I do other stuff but I have a hard time engaging online!

Instead, I stand in awe of the government officials of South Africa who have made this happen!

Personally, also, I have made use of my "knowledge of artificial intelligence - oh, so: you think you can use AI to identify bombing targets? Well, I can use AI to identify lobbying targets - and how to appeal to them, personally!".

As this horrible year is drawing to an imminent close:

Let 2024 be the last year! Let there be freedom and justice for Palestine!

@HeidiInTheBigCity cheers to that. 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸

2024 will bring change, the world has changed and won't tolerate hypocrisy.

Loads of us have learnt a new story that we never knew fully before from a voiceless, displaced people. We will be the ones to hold our governments to account until the Palestinians ACHIEVE justice.

No need to apologise @HeidiInTheBigCity ❤💐 to you, I have learnt so much from you.

Totally agree @HeidiInTheBigCity , here's to 2024 being a better year for the Palestinian people

Even if Hamas had a completely different mentality, they couldn't save the Palestinians with investment, because the Palestinians are living crowded together in open air prison camps where they are continually vulnerable to Israeli mistreatment. Hamas is an outgrowth of many decades of conflict and abuse. IDF supporters are underestimating the problem.

www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-01/ty-article/.premium/state-officials-fear-hauge-could-charge-israel-with-genocide-in-gaza/0000018c-c1a9-d3e0-abac-d9a9acd80000

Thanks @anotherlevel interesting article, basically Israeli government saying damn we actually signed up to the Genocide Convention so we can't just ignore this filing!

Interesting that the court may be able to issue a temporary injunction to cease the fighting. South Africa has asked them to consider this in the next week.

I tried the paid subscription for haaretz and it wouldn't go through
Has anyone else in the UK had this problem?

Their website is famously buggy! Try on a phone; most people seem to have fewer issues that way.

@HeidiInTheBigCity thank you
I will have another go