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Conflict in the Middle East

South Africa has invoked the Genocide Convention against Israel over Gaza

1000 replies

HeidiInTheBigCity · 30/12/2023 03:04

The entire filing is 84 pages long and, frankly, took me several hours to read - it's well worth the effort, though, in that it is rather (painfully at times) clinical and devastating in equal measure: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf

Go, South Africa!

It might not male that much of a difference in the short term - but: to see the former victims of Apartheid take the lead on the world stage, and offer support (the way they - after multiple decades of campaigning and pressure ... it's not as though world leaders hated Apartheid South Africa "by default") is just ... a little spark of light within the darkness!

South Africa has invoked the Genocide Convention against Israel over Gaza
OP posts:
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Parkingt111 · 14/01/2024 10:55

Also I know its already been said but just to reiterate that not everyone in Israel has the same views regarding the war. Even if some are from a minority

This man explaining his view is from standing together
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1zNjXVNlwr/?igsh=NWtkdm9kOGcybWF6

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1zNjXVNlwr?igsh=NWtkdm9kOGcybWF6

PeasfullPerson · 14/01/2024 10:57

As well as the costs of literally rebuilding Gaza, the Israeli government have created a generation of people that will have massive physical and mental health needs, and that will also be very expensive! The bill should be footed by those who carried out and enabled this.

Parkingt111 · 14/01/2024 10:59

Jordan, Saudi, UAE, Qatar and Turkey have shown they are willing to help rebuild Gaza, but only if the path is towards a two state solution

Parkingt111 · 14/01/2024 10:59

The above is according to what Blinken said after his last visit to the middle east

CluelessPepperoni · 14/01/2024 11:00

Polka83 · 14/01/2024 08:49

No- really wouldn’t surprise me that he would continue despite a court order from the ICJ. What would we call the IDF and Netanyahu then? War criminals? Terrorists? BBC don’t call Hamas terrorists as they were once elected.
It might bring those who supply them weapons into the court arena though- Biden already in one trial on Us soil and SA looking to bring another.

I would hope that at the very least if Israel were to be found guilty countries supplying them with arms or aid would immediately stop doing so. To keep doing so would be to support genocide and surely countries like the US, UK and Germany wouldn't want to do that. I would also hope that the EU would begin sanctioning Israel. So even if Israel refuse to stop committing genocide some good would come from the ruling.

SomeCatFromJapan · 14/01/2024 11:09

@AdamRyan I'd need a crystal ball for that. How well a post-war coalition run Gaza in the interim, who takes over from there, also very much who in government in Israel (Netanyahu not a good partner for peace as I've said before, some of the coalition headbangers far far worse).

stomachameleon · 14/01/2024 11:16

@Parkingt111 that's why it's clear Hamas have to go isn't it? And the right wing Israeli government for that Matter.
There will be no two state solution all the time the government of Gaza is intent on the repeating of 7/10 and the murder of all Jewish people. Firing rockets into Israel and the threat of other guerrilla attacks (another poster in Israel confirmed one overnight)
And a new Israeli government needs to work with rebuilding Gaza with whoever is in power. Whether it's a coalition or other countries.
I Don't buy the Hamas aren't a 'homogenous group hellbent on the destruction of the Jewish people'. Their intentions are clear and they acted on them.

Divinespark · 14/01/2024 11:36

ElonGates666 · 30/12/2023 09:08

Yoav Gallant has not said that Palestinians are human animals. He said "We are fighting against human animals". Clearly he is referring to Hamas. Not Gazans, or Palestinians.

You might have forgotten that Hamas carried out a pogrom recently, which included mass rape. A hundred years ago Jewish people could not protect themselves against pogroms. Now they have their own state and they can.

I think there is a lot of hypocrisy here. For Israelis, this is like the Second World War. The Americans and the British destroyed cities and everyone in them, for example Hamburg. The Israelis are not doing any such thing.

When Americans an British killed large numbers of people in Hamburg it wasn't because of revenge, or collective punishment. It was because the inhabitants were contributing to the Nazi war effort, and the Nazis had to be wiped out.

Please please stop defending atrocities. The world is waking up. We can say some in the IDF are humans animals? Yes?

Parkingt111 · 14/01/2024 11:38

@stomachameleon yes i agree and I have always said that. Hamas should not be governing Gaza.

Parkingt111 · 14/01/2024 12:22

Arab-Israeli lawmaker Ahmad Tibi has said on social media that three of his relatives had been killed in a strike on Nuseirat refugee camp in central Gaza.
The three people who were killed were named as: Dr Sahar Tibi, an education lecturer, Faisal Tibi, a computer science student and Ahmed Tibi, a 10-year-old boy.
“May Allah have mercy on them. We love life if we can find a way to it,” he wrote on X.

South Africa has invoked the Genocide Convention against Israel over Gaza
Polka83 · 14/01/2024 13:18

As BBC and other main stream media have not reported on SA’s evidence at the ICJ to us - please see this video. Summary is dreadful- listen and weep

https://x.com/incontextmedia/status/1746343873612226953?s=46

https://x.com/incontextmedia/status/1746343873612226953?s=46

BelleHathor · 14/01/2024 13:35

Polka83 · 14/01/2024 13:18

As BBC and other main stream media have not reported on SA’s evidence at the ICJ to us - please see this video. Summary is dreadful- listen and weep

https://x.com/incontextmedia/status/1746343873612226953?s=46

Tywin Lannister, who would have thought it.

Seriously though, thanks to all the actors that participated.

Parkingt111 · 14/01/2024 14:10

Polka83 · 14/01/2024 13:18

As BBC and other main stream media have not reported on SA’s evidence at the ICJ to us - please see this video. Summary is dreadful- listen and weep

https://x.com/incontextmedia/status/1746343873612226953?s=46

Thank you for sharing this.
It's good to know that there are other people who care enough to speak out

Parkingt111 · 14/01/2024 14:19

According to sky news over 30% of Gaza's infrastructure has now been destroyed

Examples of infrastructure include transportation systems, communication networks, sewage, water, health care systems and school systems.

Large parts of Gaza will now be uninhabitable after the war

Kindatired · 14/01/2024 14:19

DownNative · 14/01/2024 09:44

"Were"?

No, they still are "two arms of the same body".

A better way to put it is Provisional Sinn Féin and Provisional IRA are two wings of the same bird = Provisional Army Council.

Nice try at the Bias thing, but that's not a serious argument. Indeed, UK and Republic of Ireland Governments stand by their respective security agencies who state PAC still controls PSF and PIRA. The structures of PIRA is still there and they do still have some weapons. How do you think they carried out at least 45 murders since the Belfast Agreement including Robert McCartney and Paul Quinn?!

Christ. 🤦‍♂️

Absolutely. The ballot box in one hand and the armalite in the other. But violent republicanism is a dying ideology with no grassroots support. There will always be extremism in some form- an odd die hard republican with the add on of the organised crime dimension so obviously the threat needs to monitored to prevent violence. The eco system cannot support them on the scale of the 80s and 90s so at some stage they will have to just fade away as they become increasingly irrelevant and unmissed

Auvergne63 · 14/01/2024 15:15

stomachameleon · 14/01/2024 11:16

@Parkingt111 that's why it's clear Hamas have to go isn't it? And the right wing Israeli government for that Matter.
There will be no two state solution all the time the government of Gaza is intent on the repeating of 7/10 and the murder of all Jewish people. Firing rockets into Israel and the threat of other guerrilla attacks (another poster in Israel confirmed one overnight)
And a new Israeli government needs to work with rebuilding Gaza with whoever is in power. Whether it's a coalition or other countries.
I Don't buy the Hamas aren't a 'homogenous group hellbent on the destruction of the Jewish people'. Their intentions are clear and they acted on them.

I Don't buy the Hamas aren't a 'homogenous group hellbent on the destruction of the Jewish people'.
What do you mean by this?

DownNative · 14/01/2024 15:21

Kindatired · 14/01/2024 14:19

Absolutely. The ballot box in one hand and the armalite in the other. But violent republicanism is a dying ideology with no grassroots support. There will always be extremism in some form- an odd die hard republican with the add on of the organised crime dimension so obviously the threat needs to monitored to prevent violence. The eco system cannot support them on the scale of the 80s and 90s so at some stage they will have to just fade away as they become increasingly irrelevant and unmissed

No, I would argue PIRA is simply dormant for now in the same way the IRA of the 1950s was.

Indeed, Republican ideology has always argued they DON'T derive legitimacy from popular support. They derive it from the claimed legitimacy of their lineage.

The Intelligence security assessments in the 🇬🇧 and 🇮🇪 is very clear - PIRA still exists and PAC controls PSF/PIRA with an overarching strategy. It shows they still collect intelligence on political opponents.

The same assessment shows NONE of the Troubles era terrorist groups have gone away.

No, they're simply dormant and Provo ideology is not itself dying - its constantly glorified, especially by young people. The Provos don't argue Provo violence is wrong. Instead they argue its not needed at present. What PSF/PIRA have been doing for years now is bringing lawsuits against people to try shutting them up.

They recently lost a case against Malachi O'Doherty and subjected that man to years of lawsuit hell. The Provos' weapon of preference these days is lawfare. When they believe politics isn't bringing them what they want, they'll eventually reactivate their armed wing. They have a history of doing this.

Very, very different to anything you're attempting to claim.

queenofarles · 14/01/2024 16:02

Polka it’s shameful ,

the skeptical part of me thinks the significance of a country like South Africa taking this step , is that it opens up people’s eyes .
When big countries commit atrocities
or support others in their wars , no one is accountable.
we’ve seen what the President of Namibia said,
I don’t think that many are aware of the atrocities committed by Europeans in Africa , all the killings , child labour , mutilation , showcasing babies at European zoos , and FYI Germany never apologised for all their crimes in Namibia. it took them over a century to admit it was Genocide.
For the longest time the killings of 10 Million Congolese was not considered a genocide because most people died of Starvation and disease.
it’s crazy 😵‍💫

Parkingt111 · 14/01/2024 17:36

Slightly unexpected from Bernie sanders. This was from a interview with CNN. Will there be more politicians in America who will speak up on the horror being inflicted on Gazans now?

What is going on in Gaza right now is a horrendous humanitarian catastrophe. We’re looking at 23,000 people who have been killed. Almost 60,000 have been wounded. And two-thirds of the people who have been killed are women and children. You’re looking at 70% of the housing units in Gaza that have been destroyed …
If I use the word Dresden, Germany, to you, you think about the horrific destruction during World War II of that city. What is going on in Gaza now in three months is worse than what took place in Dresden over a two-year period. This is a catastrophe …
Israel has a right to respond to this horrific terrorist attack from Hamas, but you do not have a right to go to war against an entire people, women and children. And the United States Congress has got to act, because a lot of this destruction is being done with military weapons supplied by the United States of America …
We have a horrific humanitarian catastrophe. We cannot turn our backs on it. Congress has got to start moving to protect children in Palestine.

Parkingt111 · 14/01/2024 17:38

Congress has got to start moving to protect children in Palestine

Better late than never I suppose.

HeidiInTheBigCity · 14/01/2024 18:11

Parkingt111 · 14/01/2024 17:38

Congress has got to start moving to protect children in Palestine

Better late than never I suppose.

He's basically "turning up for your shift on the Y2K bug helpdesk in 2013" levels of late but ...

... well, at least he has finally changed his tune! Never did understand how US Americans seem to think he's so very far left, mind - seems like a pretty bog standard centrist Social Democrat to me.

OP posts:
Kindatired · 14/01/2024 18:27

The general hope in the US press is that a strengthened Palestinian authority would administer Gaza.
The name of Marwan Barghouti has cropped up a lot also. He is currently in prison for terrorist offences but as we discussed earlier, a terrorist one day can follow the path of peace and become the leader of a country a few years later.
https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231104-can-marwan-barghouti-the-palestinian-mandela-bring-peace-to-gaza

Can Marwan Barghouti, the ‘Palestinian Mandela’, bring peace to Gaza?

Hamas has said that the group would only release all 240 Israeli hostages held in Gaza if Israel agrees to free all Palestinian prisoners. Among those locked up is Marwan Barghouti, sentenced to life…

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231104-can-marwan-barghouti-the-palestinian-mandela-bring-peace-to-gaza

stomachameleon · 14/01/2024 18:31

Or follow the path of yahya sinwar?

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