South Africa has invoked the Genocide Convention against Israel over Gaza

[HeidiInTheBigCity]

The entire filing is 84 pages long and, frankly, took me several hours to read - it's well worth the effort, though, in that it is rather (painfully at times) clinical and devastating in equal measure: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf

Go, South Africa!

It might not male that much of a difference in the short term - but: to see the former victims of Apartheid take the lead on the world stage, and offer support (the way they - after multiple decades of campaigning and pressure ... it's not as though world leaders hated Apartheid South Africa "by default") is just ... a little spark of light within the darkness!

Meaning ?

You are welcome. The U.K. Lawyers for Israel make much better counter arguments. All accused criminals deserve a defence barrister, so a country accused of war crimes deserves no less.

The Israel defence lawyers will argue what they can. At least now you can read what is definitely closer to what Israel will likely brief tomorrow.

Thank you. You are very fair minded indeed.

My point is that using emotive rhetoric doesn't give weight to any argument.

Are you going to get so emotive about the atrocities in Yemen - According to the UN, over 150,000 people have been killed in Yemen, as well as estimates of more than 227,000 dead as a result of an ongoing famine and lack of healthcare facilities due to the war.

How about Ethiopia ? The civil war in Ethiopia has resulted in the death of some 600,000 civilians, a staggering estimate for a conflict that has lasted only two years and has been focused on a single region, Tigray, of around six million inhabitants.

How about Darfur? Nearly 4,000 civilians have been killed and 8,400 injured in Darfur, between 15 April and the end of August 2023 , with the majority believed to have been targeted mainly due to their ethnicity, particularly in West Darfur.

Or do you just choose to get upset when the Israelis are involved ?

Not really deserving of the compliment.

I think it’s ethnic cleansing at a minimum, and genocide at worst. But not everyone is subject to the law. It was ever thus.

Keep in mind that in 2022 the ICJ ruled Putin was doing both in Ukraine and ruled that he should cease the war with much less evidence. Putin ignored the ICJ. The War continues on.

Whatever the ICJ rules, it won’t stop Israel. It’s bread thrown to the circus so we plebs think something is being done to help Palestinians.

Quite
one could say the US is a strong ally of Israel so doesn’t want call - in their own words- « a far too high » civilian death toll as a war crime.

I can understand why the BRICS want to undermine the US and western allies, and perhaps there is a complicated motive in bringing forward this case. However - whatever the motive - it’s clear too many innocent Gazans have died at the hands of an extremist right wing Israeli government, and the UK and US have been the ONLY countries vetoing a ceasefire.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67929616.amp

No, I care about them too. This thread is about the current case before the ICJ.
Odd you didn’t even mention the Myanmar Genocide case to the ICJ from only weeks ago.
https://icj-cij.org/case/178

@Pinkpetunias88 sorry I thought you were replying to me! Been a long day at work and I’m not at my best or most alert!

Didn’t Netanyahu show everyone a map without Palestine on it? How on earth they can say Israel only want to target Hamas, unless they consider all Palestinians to be Hamas, which I think they do. I have a looked at the arguments supporting Israel and it all appears pretty weak, based on their own ideas of what is proportionate. The whole point is surely to stop a genocide in the making rather than to declare one once it’s completed, the daily death toll and destruction of housing and infrastructure surely cannot be considered proportionate by anyone without a bias.

@headstone yes he did. At the UN before the war

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-brandishes-map-of-israel-that-includes-west-bank-and-gaza-at-un-speech/

That's a bit of a reach

The map is so small you can hardly see that area, especially as he's drawn a huge thick red line across it !

@Pinkpetunias88 that better?
Also I'm not sure why you would argue with that. It was prior to the war and criticised by some within Israel too

Even this js criticised in the link you have put (times of Israel and not aljazeera)

Maybe Gaza is missing because it is not a country but one of two designated Palestinian Territories?
I can see is that the West Bank (another designated Palestinian Territory and not a country) is also missing and has been incorporated into Jordan. Can anyone explain that?

I'm not a cartographer, so I can't explain it.

Less of the sarcasm please.

I've been at work, do you have a problem with that ?

I'd like to know why the timings of my posts are your concern?🤔

You’d better ask him why did he show this map. Only him and those near him know why did he present it and got so much criticism around the world back in sept 2023 when he was presenting a new era of peace in the Middle East

"You’d better ask him why did he show this map"

You think I have a hotline to Bibi !? Now you are sounding absolutely ridiculous.

No problem with your being at work. What an odd comment.

Welcome to your first thread on mumsnet...

No West Bank is not shown as part of Jordan. The West Bank is all west of the river Jordan. The map upthread in the screenshot shows Israel as having annexed all remaining Palestinian lands.

Front pages for tomorrow checked - yep not a mention of the genocide hearing. I'm not sure I believe in coincidences like that.

If the rumours are true, an American ship has been sunk by the Houthis, so that may be the headline tomorrow.

It's good that new users join or follow this issue though