"The war in Gaza has been an intense lesson in western hypocrisy. It won’t be forgotten"

[flashbac]

She nails it on the head:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/27/war-gaza-lesson-western-hypocrisy-international-community

Excellent article. But it also made me terrible sad.

Thank you to everyone posting on here ❤️

Nice to see that this board (and society in general regarding this conflict of ages) has deviated from what it was majorly meant to be about, which is a space where Israel is lauded and anyone is called anti-semite if they so much as breathe wrong about the Israeli government, to a place where voices from the other side are heard too and the truth is told from both sides.

I notice there's been silence from the initial regular posters on this board who were banding together to do the former.

On facebook I and many Muslim friends have reposted everything I have found about Jewish people protesting what Israel is doing in Gaza and there are so many.

I feel like the Zionists are using the Jews as human shields.

Yea agreed, I had to keep hiding threads on this board when it started, the cognitive dissonance was so intense.

I can’t help wondering about how/why the border was so unprotected on Oct 7.

I sense from these types of articles that the US and UK and our allies can somehow just "turn off" violence in the Middle East. From what I see, the US and UK have been quite actively pushing for cease fires and a peaceful resolution.

It also worries me that this sentiment plays the ball right into Russia/China's hands. I see both Russia and China making grandiloquent statements about peace, but they both either invaded (or supported the invasion of) Ukraine. They don't seem so concerned about thousands of deaths there.

Saw Napoleon last night and made me despair. There is something in humans that craves this violence. Over and over and over again right through history. We need to step back properly recognise this in ourselves and do better.

Yes I think so. I didn’t think so at first but I do now. It makes me feel a bit better in some ways but worse in others as it shows how no one can stop these maniacs once they get going.

TheaBrandt I agree and it’s so depressing. I’ve been reading a bit about Guernica after it was mentioned in the Picasso documentary on iplayer. I knew a little bit already from when I lived in northern spain as a student.

It was the first concentrated aerial bombing of civilians. I can’t believe that instead of humans learning from this horror, the technique has been used again and again in various countries since and has essentially become a blueprint for destruction.

I disagree. The current bombing campaign could all stop tomorrow if US stopped backing, arming and funding Israel. All they need to say is a firm ‘no’. US has the power. Their weak “please play nicely” is saving face, but little more. I even saw an article yesterday saying US is now increasing the arms available to Israel at the moment.

https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2023/11/26/715294/Biden-seek-lift-restriction-Israeli-access-US-weapon-stockpile

@restabove
I didn’t realise that. Empty words then.

@Thereissomelight sadly I think yes empty words, at this point. :(

Hopefully the narrative will change but as such a powerful world leader and major ally of Israel I don't hold too much hope.

The Guardian is a disgusting rag that should be shut down. What it prints bears no relation to reality.
Hamas has shown the world that Israel can never be safe while it has murderous psychopaths, openly committed to its destruction and no better than nazis, living next door.
Israel must and will destroy Hamas completely. If their campaign results in the deaths of Palestinian non-combatants that is sad, but war is war and this will not prevent the IDF from doing whatever is needed to ensure the safety of their homeland.

@WatTyler ever considered that your posts might be the ones that bear no relation to reality?

I know - it’s almost funny - except for the thousands of innocent children that have been murdered in the last few weeks.

@Thereissomelight so much vitriol and hate on MN. So sad.

@WatTyler well we've seen that bombardment and a perpetual state of war hasn't helped Israel in any meaningful way. There has been bloodshed, on both sides, but I can't see that it's made anyone safer.

This whole thread shows yet again how Israel cannot win.

After October 7th, they had two choices:

(1) Refrain from any significant military action in Gaza and allow Hamas, whose founding charter includes the annihilation of Israel, to celebrate its actions of October 7th, grow in strength, repeat the barbarism it committed on Oct 7th again and again, with increasing lethality, until every last Jew in Israel has died, emigrated, or submitted.

(2) Take significant military actions in order to try to destroy Hamas, accepting that this would involve many civilian deaths because of how Hamas has co-located its military assets among civilians, and suffer the opprobrium of the West, which might lead the West to stop supporting Israel, thus allowing Hamas to achieve its objective of annihilating Israel at any cost.

So Israel had one option that would lead to their certain destruction, and a second option that only might lead to their destruction. I can sort of see why they chose option 2.

At one level you can say, it is not that simple, Netanyahu enabled Hamas in order to avoid having to sign a peace deal, etc. etc. and that is all partly true, but I believe that any other Israeli government, no matter how noble, would have eventually faced the exact same dilemma.

WatTyler · Today 10:03

The Guardian is a disgusting rag that should be shut down. What it prints bears no relation to reality.
Hamas has shown the world that Israel can never be safe while it has murderous psychopaths, openly committed to its destruction and no better than nazis, living next door.
Israel must and will destroy Hamas completely. If their campaign results in the deaths of Palestinian non-combatants that is sad, but war is war and this will not prevent the IDF from doing whatever is needed to ensure the safety of their homeland.”

”Sad”? Jesus.

@MrsSkylerWhite yep, the rhetoric is scary.

MrsSkylerWhite · Today 10:23

WatTyler · Today 10:03
**
The Guardian is a disgusting rag that should be shut down. What it prints bears no relation to reality.
Hamas has shown the world that Israel can never be safe while it has murderous psychopaths, openly committed to its destruction and no better than nazis, living next door.
Israel must and will destroy Hamas completely. If their campaign results in the deaths of Palestinian non-combatants that is sad, but war is war and this will not prevent the IDF from doing whatever is needed to ensure the safety of their homeland.”

”Sad”? Jesus

@YankeeDad "After October 7th, they had two choices:"

A lot of what Israel did before October 7th is the problem here. You can't steal land, abuse and murder people, keep millions of them trapped in a tiny area whilst controlling their movement, food, power etc and expect to have a good relationship with them and for them to like you. Come on now.

@Toothyfruity Decades and decades of oppression of Palestinians precede October 7th. (No, I do not condone Hamas' actions).

The only good thing to come out of all of this, is the world is waking up to the harsh reality of life for Palestinian people. It is starting to snowball.