"The war in Gaza has been an intense lesson in western hypocrisy. It won’t be forgotten"

[flashbac]

She nails it on the head:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/27/war-gaza-lesson-western-hypocrisy-international-community

@Chaitales @Thereissomelight
Absolutely. It was presented as "A land without a people, for a people without a land", all very altruistic.

Even Churchill famously said "I do not apologize for the takeover of the region by the Jews from the Palestinians in the same way I don’t apologize for the takeover of America by the whites from the Red Indians or the takeover of Australia from the blacks. It is natural for a superior race to dominate an inferior one"
It was and is neo colonialism, the Palestinians were amd still are treated like they don't exist.

No better than the excuses used in the past of conquering Africa/Asia to "tame the savages" aka bring democracy. It's why so many people are never taught about the Nakba etc.

History of the Palestinian nation.
https://www.palestinechronicle.com/remembering-the-ottoman-empire-in-palestine/#

Thank you. While I won't argue whether it was nation or not as that can depend on definition, but by and large it was not an area that was, by lack of use of a better word, under developed or poor. If you look at photographs of for eg Palestine in the 20s and 30s, it was a thriving place of agriculture, universities, industries, culture, poetry and the arts. It was not a wasteland as some people would like to believe, but a thriving "state". Iraq was well known as the seat of learning, universities and literature, Turkey and Iran were prosperous States, lots more examples.

Im sure there are lots more videos of Palestine before Israel came into being but here is one example

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzrbSNzoJc/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Walked the dog in a local forest today and found myself thinking, Imagine if I went into a forest and killed every bird there and if anyone objected I would show them that there’s no nation on the map marked “bird nation” so anyone who says birds ever lived there is lying.

It wasn’t a wasteland by any means, although it was relatively sparsely populated. Of course, many of the people living there already were Jews.

It is not colonialism because a majority of the Jewish residents of Israel are middle-eastern. And also because the majority of those of European origin were refugees, many stateless.

But I suppose all these conversations about the past make me think ‘so what?’ Is it realistic to shape policy based on what happened 100 years ago? The region looks entirely different now.

I’m so sorry to anyone from Gazza. This is not justified. How can anyone think this bombing and the horror of trapped families is the only way. It's genocide. Are they going to stop? I am so disgusted by our government accepting it.

@Bickery
You’re right that what was done 100 years ago is not the fault of anyone alive and people have to move forward.

The problem is that (a) people are lying about what happened and (b) people are currently bombing and killing thousands of innocent children. Literally as we speak they’re doing it.

Bickery wrote
You’ve skipped over some fairly important stuff that suggests it isn’t just the ‘fault’ of the Europeans. The Ottomans and the almost-universal expulsion of Jews from other middle-eastern countries, for example.

Have I got this wrong? I thought that for the majority of the time, Jews generally lived quite well under the Ottomans. I also thought that the expulsion of Jews from the middle-eastern countries came after WW2, not before.

Bickery said
"It wasn’t a wasteland by any means, although it was relatively sparsely populated. Of course, many of the people living there already were Jews."

I think in any discussion about the demography of Palestine you have to state a timeframe because it was changing so quickly. In the 36 years between 1914 and 1950 it altered radically. From being 1 in 13 of the population, Jews went to being 1 in 2. You can start to understand the unease of the arabs that lived there as waves of Eastern European Jews came into the land.

Yes of course, a time of huge flux. European and middle-eastern Jews, although you’re right, there was a huge movement of Mizrahi after Israel was established. And there is no doubt mass migration causes tension.

Perhaps neighbouring countries that expelled their Jewish population should be expected to cede land to Israel, who could then be more flexible in negotiating with the Palestinians. It’s interesting that despite the whole region being in a state of flux in the last century, the Israelis and Palestinians are left fighting over a tiny amount of land. Why aren’t we all blaming Jordan or Lebanon?

Ultimately though I think arguments about the past are mostly unhelpful. People usually do it either to paint Israel as colonial oppressors (which involves simplification and distortion of the past and painting Palestinians as eternal victims) or they do it to claim an ancestral right to the land for the Jewish people (also not simple).

@Bickery
Well sticking firmly to the present I would certainly call Israel oppressors now.

Why aren’t we all blaming Jordan and Lebanon

Are they killing thousands of innocent children right now?

distraction tactic? ignore 15000+ killed in the last month nd a whole city destroyed and 1.5m residents forced to flee.. lets look at someone else. i wonder

Interesting take by Noam Chomsky about the charge that anti zionism is the new anti semitism

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0UetTTuvJj/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Another one on the "ceasefire" - did Hamas break it on Oct 7th?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0Kyj-irCCY/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

Imagine an atrocity video showing the blown-up smithereens of 6000 children their bloodied and maimed bodies the suffering parents and relatives and the inevitable maiming and traumatising of 100s of thousands of others. Let the world's press watch an hour of horror after bloody horror and then return to the debate. But you will have to imagine it because it will never happen.

Palestinians have no wealth, no power, no agency, and no global voice. Worse than apartheid as Noam Chomsky rightly says.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bMnqzjz-QK4

recommend former Diplomat and current Oxford uni lecturer on diplomacy called Dr Jennifer Cassidy. @ mynameisjennifer on instagram