"The war in Gaza has been an intense lesson in western hypocrisy. It won’t be forgotten"

[flashbac]

She nails it on the head:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/27/war-gaza-lesson-western-hypocrisy-international-community

Yes to the sociopaths.

Thank you for linking to the article; she writes so well and so clearly. The UN seems powerless to act - so what’s the point of it? - and the western leaders who have asked Israel countless times to “stick to international law to avoid a humanitarian catastrophe” when a HUMANITARIAN CATASTROPHE is ALREADY unfolding at breakneck speed before our eyes are shameful.

The unspeakable atrocities carried out by Hamas on October 7th are rightfully described as a “massacre” but surely the bombing of unarmed civilians who are trapped in a tiny area of land and who cannot flee is a “massacre”, too - but never worded as such. I too have felt very shocked and angry and helpless and heartbroken by so much brutality and killing.

The unspeakable atrocities carried out by Hamas on October 7th are rightfully described as a “massacre” but surely the bombing of unarmed civilians who are trapped in a tiny area of land and who cannot flee is a “massacre”, too

I would ask those people calling this a war, how are civilians supposed to surrender? Israel certainly hasn't put any mechanism in place for civilians to surrender and yet they are the ones getting injured, killed and starved.

Today’s Telegraph not pleased that Biden is preferring to avoid further child murders.

The Telegraph has lost all credibility in this conflict imo. I used to read it, I’m no lefty normally. But I can’t stomach the sort of stuff they’ve been writing about Israel/Palestine.

I could have written this myself!

I'm suspicious of bidens motives here. I think it's likely more about saving face than anything meaningful. Still, better than nothing.

The most depressing aspect of the conflict is that it reminds me just how powerless the ordinary person is. Marches may attract hundreds of thousands, letters and articles may be written in newspapers, but in the end, geopolitical, strategic and economic factors always outweigh anything else. The realpolitik is that humanity and moral considerations are always pushed way down the list.

Is there anything that can be done to change this ?

Can I just say thank you to every single woman who is writing on here advocating for the Palestinian people as human beings deserving of safety and protection, and of life.

I wanted to share this article from Israeli newspaper Haaretz written by a Palestinian journalist who has a regular column there. It has given me encouragement that our solidarity amounts to something.

There are plenty of cynics who call us “useful idiots” and a lot more grim, there are so many women who just want us to shut up and not only have these innocent people die agonising slow deaths but to do so quietly. Stop disturbing them with our reminders of children suffering unknown trauma lying trapped under rubble, wondering when the next bomb is going to hit and where, it’s so hateful of us… others whose racism is so embedded that they just cannot at all believe that we are horrified by what is happening and so instead create a frankly bonkers narrative of Hamas supporters and insist it’s instead motivated by bigotry… I’m at a loss for words regarding their psychology.

But to quote an Israeli guy I follow who has been speaking out against this disaster of a war, in response to abusive comments:
“I am responsible for my own soul and from this story I will emerge mentally sound”…

Keep speaking out, keep sharing, keep hoping because it’s the only thing we can do to make a difference and together we are having an impact. Ultimately, we are responsible to our own soul and what we can pass on to our children. I will never allow my children to justify violence of any kind against innocents.

The last photo cuts off the end of the article, it ends as below (automatic translation from Hebrew so not 100% smooth)

“So you can laugh and patronize these "snowflakes" all you want. But these whistles won't disappear anywhere because they are the future and Israel, what to do, stuck for too long in the past.”

I’ve also found it crazy how you can’t call out the Israeli government and military without being labelled anti-Israeli or suggested to be an anti-Semite.

I couldn’t care less what religion, race, colour or creed people are, but I do care about people’s and governments actions and words; calling millions of people ‘human animals’ and mercilessly killing thousands of innocent civilians including babies and children, denying them access to medical aid, water or food is barbaric and should absolutely be condemned.

If somebody criticised the UK government, (as I frequently do anyway!) I would not take that as a personal assault to me or to my right to exist.

@Ixxy1980 well it reminds me of America’s war on Iraq. I was in America that summer and saw the menus in the diners “freedom fries/ traitor toasts” (cos France didn’t support the war)…. The Dixie Chicks were an early example of cancellation for speaking out against Bush (so brave considering their fan base). It was very much “you’re with us or against us”. And that war was just such a horror and continues to be. I read recently there were 4.6million deaths as a result. It made the whole region soooooooo unsafe, just a shocking fk up. And immoral.
so yes it’s crucial to speak out against governments doing harm I’d say.

Hear hear.

@Decisiontimenow thank you, especially pertinent and a good reminder thay we are doing essential speaking up for the voiceless victims 👌

Absolutely this

A positive is that Gen Z are looking for footage directly from Gaza as part of informing themselves. They are not relying on what mainstream news is reporting no matter where they live because they know it gets filtered and edited and interpreted. It does give me hope because as the article states, it took months or years, sometimes years after a war had ended before people realised there had been hypocrisy and double standards.

Sadly, I don't think this contrast really holds. A million people demonstrated in London at the time of the invasion of Iraq. It was known and documented at the time, including in the 'mainstream media' that the justifications for it were spurious. The only thing that wasn't known was just how devastating it would be for the region and for the international 'rules based' order.

Gaza is more brutal, more bloody than former conflicts, and playing out at a dizzyingly higher speed, in terms of the rapidity with which the death toll shot up. But in other respects it is more of the same international bankrupcy with which we have become familiar since Iraq, and I don't think Gen Z has any startlingly more constructive reaction to it, let alone a superior information channel to inform them of what is happening. The contrary. What I see on social media is the sickeningly familiar spectacle of issues becoming hyper-polemicised, tribalised, discussed with less and less analytical power, as if the whole point was picking a team rather than trying to work out how this running sore of a conflict should be resolved.

Totally agree
I have been shocked by the callousness of some posters and the complete disregard for human life.
The dehumanisation of thousands of women and children and the constant deflection.
Shocking to say the least

I’m also really disturbed seeing played out the “pick a side..tribalism” that a PP mentioned upthread. I can’t get my head around people being labelled anti-Semitic or hateful for wanting the bombing of Gaza to stop, permanently. Why is this anti-Semitic? It’s not anti- anyone; it’s pro-humanity.

I also don’t understand why anyone would label any expression of horror or outage at the October 7th massacres as “Islamophobia”. It’s possible to deplore ALL the brutality and senseless killing without “taking sides”.

I am afraid you’re right about a lot of this. Same concerns.

I do think one tangible difference is that the west can see who we’ve been told for so long is the aggressor and for those who look, the majority seems to recognise them as people just like they are. I do believe that radical act will lead to change.
I just hope it happens now before any further violence is inflicted on the people of Gaza, already their suffering is enormous. I hope for an honest broker (Qatar?) to help deliver a real solution everyone can live with with militant Hamas gone.
I hope that Israel recovers from its most recent trauma and rediscovers itself in a way that dispenses with the far right and associated extremes. I pray the Palestinians can also forgive and move past what has occurred and embrace a future where they are free to live in dignity. I hope all are safe and can thrive.

I haven’t seen the latter but that’s insane. I have seen Oct 7 downplayed in its horror and have challenged people doing so.

We must keep seeking understanding to move on… There is a very good podcast episode on NYT “what Israel needs the world to understand” which I found helpful in terms of understanding that perspective (not necessarily re oct7 alone but more broadly). X

@Decisiontimenow I don’t understand any attempts to downplay anything that happened on or has happened since October 7th.

I believe that the campaign group Sisters Uncut made a “downplaying” comment using the word “Islamaphobic” regarding what Hamas did on October 7th.

On the subject of ”downplaying”, I have also read articles about organisations who really really should know better who have not commented - or only briefly - on the brutality of the sexual violence and brutality meted out towards women and girls by Hamas on October 7th. There was an extremely harrowing, eye-opening thread here recently, contributed to by some very knowledgeable MNetters.

That’s unconscionable.

It's been an eye opener for me too. Not just with the government and 'opposition' response, or with the media bias, but the support and justification for Israel's actions amongst the public (including many MN posters).
It's sickened me to my stomach.

At the same time there has been a huge turnout for protests in support of the Palestinians and on social media, which gives me hope. The fact that the media has played down the size of the protests and had to twist the narrative shows that we are still a threat, even if small at this point.

Ixxy1980 · Today 19:31

I’ve also found it crazy how you can’t call out the Israeli government and military without being labelled anti-Israeli or suggested to be an anti-Semite.

I think that is because of a kind of "siege mentality" taken on by those Jewish posters who are trying to justify the actions of Israel. Part of their defence manifests itself as an automatic belief that any criticism of the state is motivated by a hatred of Jews. This knee jerk reaction can not only be comforting but it can also preclude them from actually having to think about the conflict. "You're just a Jew-hater, why should I listen to your opinions?"

I suppose we have to reach out to these people and say “it’s not your being
Jewish that I disagree with, it’s your ideas.”

whilst there are a significant numbver of jews who abhor what israel is doing, I suspect there are more Jewish people than you think who are actually critical
of the state but cannot give outright condemnation because they feel they would be being disloyal.

The number of times it’s been suggested that posters are Jew haters, or antisemites or that their “true colours” are showing, has become tiresome.

Seeing threads on here with people so concerned for the Israeli hostages. Worrying about them, about how they must be so scared and traumatised but not a single word about the Palestinians and the unimaginable horror they are experiencing. Talking about the little 10 month old baby and how they need to get him back home with not a hint of irony, as if there's not thousands of dead, injured, orphaned Palestinian babies suffering horrendously.

I think that is because of a kind of "siege mentality" taken on by those Jewish posters who are trying to justify the actions of Israel. Part of their defence manifests itself as an automatic belief that any criticism of the state is motivated by a hatred of Jews. This knee jerk reaction can not only be comforting but it can also preclude them from actually having to think about the conflict. "You're just a Jew-hater, why should I listen to your opinions?"

@quiteoldad Yes exactly this!