Dealing with challenging conversations on Christianity on MN and elsewhere

[GentleSheep]

I am very sure some of you will know exactly what I mean! I have been trying to get into spreading the gospel online (since I don't get out due to being housebound) and am finding it challenging, although every day I learn something new about how to handle situations.

If you have been involved in this in some way, do you have any tips or strategies? I don't want to avoid talking about the gospel or Christ on this site, there are so many people in need of salvation, but it's hard when coming up against quite militant opposing views. I'm aware there may be people reading threads and lurking who never post when Christianity's being discussed so I do think it's important to witness so they can have something to mull over.

There's an old joke in Oxford

Why is Turl Street like the Church of England?
A It goes from the Broad (Street) to the High (Street) bypassing Jesus (College)

Now I'm going to ignore the last bit, because my experience is that on the whole it doesn't bypass Jesus, but because there are so many churches it does vary.
I've been to mostly CofE churches over my life, although I don't especially feel an affinity to it it's merely been the local church most suited to our needs has happened to be at least partially CofE.

I've been to ones that still use old language, ones that use incense, ones that don't deviate one iota from the liturgy, ones that ignore the liturgy unless the bishop is coming , ones that have only an organ, ones that have a band that would rival top of the pops...
And in some ways that's the beauty of the CofE. Under one body they have all these different varieties. Sometimes I do get frustrated with it, sometimes they're wrong, but most of the time it works, and for most people in it, their aim is to glorify God.

But there is a disadvantage with being so big, and the church of the state in that they're under a spotlight.
When I arrived in Oxford, we were told that what we did became interesting simply because of that. Something that wouldn't even register if you were at a less known place, could hit the national news. Look at the latest row about the Cambridge Professor - if he'd been at Fen Technical College, it would never have been taken up by the media in the way it was.
And the same is true of the CofE. If there is a problem there, then it hits headlines in the way the smaller denominations - even ones like Methodist don't.
I can tell you from experience that one smaller denomination put out a terribly priggish safeguarding announcement after the CofE had had a problem saying how careful they were - yet I know personally that their way of dealing with multiple safeguarding concerns raised about a minister was to ask them if they had done anything, and then promote them to a different area. And what's more there is no where to appeal, because it's so small they all are in each other's pockets and stick together.

Going back to the original question. I think it's important to challenge untruths when you see them. There is a matter of weighing up at the time whether it is the right thing to do, but if things are left unchallenged then others reading them will believe them to be true.
There is a very anti-Christianity undercurrent on MN, and maybe that's something we should be praying about. I don't think it's everyone, or even a majority, but a minority who feel that they "know" everything about Christianity because they learnt a bit in school, but never learnt about the true message - the love of Jesus. Because of that they feel that they have the right to comment in a way they wouldn't about another belief.

For me, unless someone comes directly to me, then sharing my faith isn't something that comes easily to me. However I believe that behaving as a Christian, being kind, putting myself out etc means that when people find out I'm a Christian they often want to know more. No, they don't fall down on their knees and repent on the spot, but what I want to do is give them something to wonder about. Something where they find themselves wanting to know more, be drawn to it, often despite themselves.
That's often what brings people to God rather than hitting them over the head with Biblical truths.

I do believe that at the moment there is a revival - will it get bigger? Only time can tell, At the moment it is among the young, especially boys, who don't have the preconceptions about Christianity due to school teaching. I pray it will grow.
But at the same time, I also see that Christianity in this country is under attack. Visible signs of Christianity are finding things put in their way, and not from people's opposition; things that are out of human control or due to things out of human control. That's to be expected. As Christ rises, there will be opposition.

But the good news is, although it may be tough in the meantime, God's given us the end of the story - and He wins!

As usual I agree with you @GentleSheep 1 Peter 3: always be ready to give an answer! If we know our Scripture and we are sure of who we are in Christ then we are always at the ready to lead people towards Him.

For me, He gives me as much as I need to know as and when I need to know it. Although there is a call to be mature, we should also have the heart of a child - to simply trust His Word is True. That is one reason why I have no problem with Sola Scriptura - for me, the Word proves the Word. It is the reason I believe the Genesis account of Creation.

@MargaretThursday But the good news is, although it may be tough in the meantime, God's given us the end of the story - and He wins!

A huge yes and Amen to that! 🙏

I have a picture of Him as a loving indulgent parent watching His children squabble as humans are in the habit of doing, and leaving them to sort it out for themselves.

Ha! Well one day we will likely disagree! In the meantime my Church is also Sola Scriptura and believes in the literal creation story and so on. I find it a reassuring position.

I do admire your maturity in Christ, I have a long way to go, maybe I am not a child anymore, more like an unruly teenager at times! 😂Sometimes I want to get right in there but realise now there's a time and place!

Ha! Well one day we will likely disagree!

😁Maybe (we are human, afterall), but my boxing gloves are Holy - they hit soft or hit hard depending on the circumstances, but always wrapped with a 'right heart'. 💝 You have taught me a lot.

Please do not stop being 'you', unruly teenagers are sometimes useful. Not saying you are, btw.

Aww thanks! Am not sure exactly what you'd learn from me but I certainly have learnt from you and other folks here. It's always heart-warming to see other Christians appear out of the woodwork on the general forums, too. 💖

One day soon we Christians are going to have to stand strong and united against persecution in this country, I think at that point our denomination will be irrelevant. That's my 'unruly' comment for the day! 😂

I think the difficulty with this list is that it presents Catholic teaching in a way that most (perhaps all) Catholics themselves would not recognise, and then contrasts each statement with a Bible verse as though that verse disproves the Catholic position. As a Catholic, I would understand these passages rather differently.

If we were sitting face to face and you presented me with this list as you have done here, I would either, depending on my mood:
A) internally eye-roll and move the conversation on, or
B) debate each point, one by one. 😂
However, I don't think this is the place for that. I strongly disagree with what you have written, and the reason I am replying is because this is the internet. I am conscious that people are reading these posts and may or may not take what has been written as an accurate representation of Catholic teaching, when I don't believe it is. It is your understanding and position on Catholic teaching, rather than an uncontested statement of what the Catholic Church actually teaches.

I am not claiming that I am right and you are wrong, and I don't want this to come across as combative. You are absolutely entitled to your thoughts and interpretation, just as I am entitled to mine, and I genuinely respect that.
I would simply encourage anyone reading this to research the claims being made for themselves, look at what the Catholic Church actually teaches from Catholic sources, and use their own critical thinking before forming an opinion.

@MargaretThursday I think it's important to challenge untruths when you see them. There is a matter of weighing up at the time whether it is the right thing to do, but if things are left unchallenged then others reading them will believe them to be true.

Agree!

But the good news is, although it may be tough in the meantime, God's given us the end of the story - and He wins!

Amen! Praise God!

@Ipsevenenabibas I suggest you a) eye roll and move on. 😎 I will not debate the issue. Been there, done that. Not edifying.

It is written.

Peace 📖 🕊️ㅤ♡†

I nearly missed seeing your post! Yes over my lifetimes I've experienced various 'flavours' of the CofE, having started as a child at a church with hard pews, an old organ and a vicar who sing-songed everything to overcome a bad stammer, graduated to a more lively church with a few instruments which became a full band over the years. When I returned to Christianity I went more liturgical as I found the CofE church I had previously attended too 'fluffy' in the sermon department, and the music had become a rock show. Then I found my current non-denom church and am happy there, although I will always miss the CofE in some ways, there's nothing like those old hymns and the reciting of creeds that thousands of other Christians have recited over the millennia.

There is a very anti-Christianity undercurrent on MN, and maybe that's something we should be praying about.

Yes, although it's to be expected as Jesus and other apostles warned us would happen, and as you said further on. Christianity is indeed under attack. I did think for a brief moment that Christian nationalism might be what's needed, but I don't believe it is, now, simply because Jesus never told us to take over our government, quite the opposite, really, He told us His Kingdom is not of this world. He walked the earth at a time and experienced an oppressive Roman government but didn't tell his followers to overthrow it. So yes, Christ is coming and we need to be getting on with His work in the meantime.

... I think at that point our denomination will be irrelevant. That's my 'unruly' comment for the day! 😂

A wise comment!

I continue to say that there is more that binds us than separates us. 🙏

I will always miss the CofE in some ways, there's nothing like those old hymns and the reciting of creeds that thousands of other Christians have recited continue to recite.

I identify with this feeling. I feel comfortable with all the hymns and the creed ... it's just the way CofE leadership has gone that makes me feel very sad.

@Ipsevenenabibas I wanted to add, although I won't engage in debate over our differing pov 🙈🙉🙊, I do appreciate Rome's consistency and stability in not changing to suit the world view. You may be annoyed at me, but you are charged with loving the unloveable 😊and I still consider you a sister in Christ.

Hahaha this did make me laugh!

Thank you 😊 I’m not annoyed with you - I know we have very different views on some important things, but I appreciate that we can disagree and still recognise each other as sisters in Christ. ❤️ 🫂

I am happy to learn that you appreciate Romes consistency - it is something I truly value about the Church too!

Peace and love to you @Thegreatestoftheseislove always ❤️ 🕊

P.S. there is nothing unloveable about you!

Yep Rome's consistency is a big plus, I agree.

Warmly and with a hug, God bless you both @Ipsevenenabibas and @GentleSheep and thank you @GentleSheep for this useful thread and conversation. All praise and glory to God for His redeeming Grace. 🙏💝

On this forum it seems that some people may have been confused by the definition of what a is a cult, sect and denomination. This can cause wrong information going out there if this is not done correctly. It may be helpful if people understand what they are the definition to apply them correctly.

This information may be quite helpful in correctly labelling organisations.
https://revisesociology.com/2018/11/27/churches-denominations-sects-and-cults-similarities-differences/

I think we should be careful with labelling some church’s with different traditions as cults who use Old Testament laws at times but have the core elements of the faith.

This is what the law says about freedom of religion. I think a debate needs to be had about this how to share the gospel in light of this. This covers people with all faiths or none. I have seen negative stereotypes on this forum and abusive words at times which is against the freedom of religion.. Threads have also been derailed which can be obstructing someone in their expression of their faith.

The law regards to this is Article 18 and 19 of the UN declaration of Human rights and also Article 9 and 10 of the Human Rights Act.

https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1/part/I/chapter/8

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/freedom-of-religion-or-belief-understanding-this-human-right

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/human-rights/human-rights-act/article-9-freedom-thought-belief-and-religion

https://www.cps.gov.uk/prosecution-guidance/racist-and-religious-hate-crime-prosecution-guidance

Perhaps the government should re-read its own rules as there's definitely persecution of Christians in the UK.

Look at 66 yr old Sarah Morse in Scotland, asked by students at the school where she was a substitute teacher what were her views on abortion, she explained as a Roman Catholic she believed it was wrong. Same day she lost her job. Yet apparently we have the right to our beliefs (Article 9): "You also have the right to put your thoughts and beliefs into action. This could include your right to wear religious clothing, the right to talk about your beliefs or take part in religious worship."

I think that they should have been able to speak about these things. I think if the law is not trust worthy enough that may be people shouldn’t speak about these things at work. They should state their faith and say they don’t want to enter into debate. I have seen it written though that they accept orthodox views in the court.

"Equality law protects religious and philosophical conviction as a characteristic, and the courts have accepted that orthodox Christian views on life and marriage qualify."
https://ewtn.co.uk/article-gb-ewtn-gb-faith-in-the-classroom-the-sarah-morse-case-in-scotland/

Moving on-
I have seen these two scripture which may be useful in this debate. These may be harder for some people to do online, but it is a guide.

(2 Timothy 2:24)-

“And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness.”

“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth”

(1 Peter 3:15)-
“But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect”