Global Anti- Blackness, China now Ukraine, it too much

[debbrianna]

It's soul destroying to watch other black people suffer in the middle of a pandemic or war where it has nothing to do with race. The videos from China was horrible. Now we are seeing the same from Ukraine. Why? We are people too. The chances of this war spread to the UK is not far off and that scares me.
We all see colour and it's annoying when people claim they don't. Evidence from around the world shows hate. I hope the black resident of Ukraine and black students trying to leave find away out. I joke they survive too. They should have the same right as everyone else who wants to leave.

By the way, don't come at me that this is not the time. It is and I am tired. We are humans too.

Does anybody know why the black men are joining the Ukraine army to join the fighting? Were they born in Ukraine?

The Ukrainian president has called for people to come and help them fight and have set up, or are setting up foreign legions. Numbers of ex military from the UK are joining and travelling from the UK to the Ukraine with the help of the Ukrainian embassy. I think similar is happening in many countries. Imo it doesn't matter where they're from, they're fighting right v wrong.

news.sky.com/story/ukraine-invasion-britons-willing-to-die-to-defeat-putins-army-as-volunteers-prepare-to-travel-to-fight-russian-invasion-12554220

Kendodd. I agree that it doesn't matter "where they are from." But we aren't talking International Brigaders at that part of the thread.

To clarify, the question from the pp earlier in the thread, was a genuine one. This is primarily intended to be a discussion between black mumsnetters - which is why it isn't on the main board. In brief, more a question around differentiating between foreign nationals seeking to leave, and Ukranians, who happen to be black, staying to fight.

Ukraine has a black population, albeit small. They are Ukraine born, and citizens of Ukraine. The ones I am aware of are Rwandan by descent. They are fighting alongside their white Ukraine neighbours to defend all of their families and friends in the Ukraine. (And I have the utmost regard for their bravery. Make no mistake)

It was a question from a black mumsnetter to other black mumsnetters for a specific reason. Perhaps not immediately obvious to those looking in.

KD cross posted with your link.
There is a young man near me gone to Ukraine. What do you say that doesnt sound trite?

But the OP's thread is about anti blackness in conflicts and war zones.
From a black perspective.

And as far as I'm aware no person over 19 is legally a child but the media has thing of calling white men (who often have committed crimes) up to the grand old age of 25 (see Brock Turner and many of his ilk) boys and children so I will continue to call the young Black people fleeing war children - to highlight how young they are because I don't get why young Black children are men and women from the age of 12. And trying to frame 18 and 19 year old female and male students as grown men fleeing and insisting they take priority over women and children is disingenuous, especially when some of the students are as young as 15. So respectfully Fuck off

I love a respectful "fuck off".

Well MN side with the racist because I pointed out @NNat is misrepresenting the facts and there are children and women being denied access to the border and thrown off trains because they are Black. Black children and women are travelling to different borders after being denied to entry to the first one they reach in the hope someone will let them in. I'm not surprised @MNHQ would leave a racist post up in BlackMN and delete an anti-racist and anti-black one, all because I told a racist to fuck off. In my book, I should have said a lot worse. Thank you for telling on yourself, and who really matters, even in telling our own stories, venting frustration and passing on updates and even links to charities and individuals helping Black people escape war. And people will argue white fragility isn't a thing.

@EchoNan I found a Ukrainian rap group with Ethiopian heritage -

When the press talk about what Ukrainian musicians and DJs are doing they have ignored all the black and other non-white ones, even though they are aware, as they mention it, there is a Ukrainian hip-hop scene.

@RedWingBoots My heart goes out to them. Wondering where they are, How they are doing. Want to send them words that we care.

Did you see the thread some days ago where the OP talked about streaming Ukranian music to help? I so wish I'd had your link then to post up!

NNat Educate yourself. You are upset a black woman got annoyed at you plopping to spout misinformation on BMN? Shame on you. You won't shut us up because the truth doesn't suit you.

time.com/6153276/ukraine-refugees-racism/

We entered the train last,” Kass says, describing how she and other African women were forced to wait outside as snow was falling, while white women and children were allowed to board before them. She believes her gender is the only reason she was spared being beaten. Groups of Nepalese, Indian and Somalian men described to TIME how they were kicked and beaten with batons by Ukrainian guards who later begrudgingly allowed them to cross over, on foot

Later, when Kass’s train stopped for 17 hours at the Polish border, she says Ukrainian train guards gave out bread and sausages to passengers. But they passed by Kass and her African friends. “By the time it was our turn, they threw us the ends of stale bread,” she says. After spending more than a third of her life in Ukraine, she felt let down. “It was a traumatic experience

.

Has anyone seen Roma people speaking about their experiences trying to flee Lviv?

History casts a long shadow.

I keep telling myself that racist people are idividuals, not an entire nation.

[quote RedWingBoots]@EchoNan I found a Ukrainian rap group with Ethiopian heritage -

When the press talk about what Ukrainian musicians and DJs are doing they have ignored all the black and other non-white ones, even though they are aware, as they mention it, there is a Ukrainian hip-hop scene.[/quote]
Refreshing! I wasn't sure on what I was going to watch. Amazing!

I'm not black so I hope I'm allowed to comment. I'm beyond disgusted and upset at the second class treatment shown to black refugees in Ukraine. Some have been though war before, too. Sone have had their education snatched from them at the last hurdle, close to their finals. It is a shame on the whole planet.

@Outhouse71421 Indeed. The whole situation is a shame on the whole planet.

I had the misfortune yesterday to be at the school gates and overheard a conversation between two mums. One of whom is Polish. Mum A kept pressing the Polish Mum for details of her family who appeared to live near the border with Ukraine. Polish Mum seemed reluctant to reply.
I felt sorry for her being pumped for juicy tales.

Mum A then turned to Mum B nearby and said. " You know, I think we really feel this more because these are PEOPLE LIKE US"

Mum B said "How do you mean?"

Mum A " You know, PEOPLE LIKE US"

She shut up then when I sighed heavily and she turned and saw me.

@TheBlackDarner I know Polish people whose spouses/partners are black or asian.

I bet Mum A didn't check who Mum B's partner/father of her children was.....

It's really horrifying to hear these stories. This young woman sounds remarkable calm, www.rte.ie/news/2022/0303/1284245-student-stranded-ukraine/
How awful that she has to worry about possible racist treatment on top of everything else. As if being trapped in a war zone wasn't enough!

Whilst this is utterly deplorable, even in these circumstances it's not really a shock is it.

DH is black and I am white, we have two children. We were discussing this and DD said to me, "so wait if we were all there they might let you get to safety but not us?"

Conversations I have had to have with my DC about racism are some of the shittest I have ever had and sometimes it's hard to find the words.

DH is tired of it, tired of excuses and apologists. I'm sorry you're tired too OP

I was waiting for another report to go up but I found this in the mean time

www.theguardian.com/global-development/commentisfree/2022/mar/04/embraced-or-pushed-back-on-the-polish-border-sadly-not-all-refugees-are-welcome

On Tuesday, just 100 metres from my hotel, dozens of Polish nationalists, dressed in black, targeted these groups of non-white refugees, chanting “go back to your country”. Three Indians were beaten up, leaving one of them having to be taken to hospital.

After the incident, police in Poland warned that groups linked to the far right are already spreading false information about alleged crimes committed by people from Africa and the Middle East who are fleeing the violence in Ukraine.

“It’s fake news,” the Polish authorities said.

DH is black and I am white, we have two children. We were discussing this and DD said to me, "so wait if we were all there they might let you get to safety but not us?"
@IDidntFloatUpTheLaganInABubble
It breaks my heart still after all these years when children realise these things. I'm so very sorry. It does so wear you down. It must be beyond stressful for you as a Mum dealing with the unsolicited "people like us remarks". As if they assume you are a natural member of their bigot gang. No questions asked.

@RedWingBoots It's so true about assumptions re partners, as Lagan says above.
That report on the Ultras group, my gosh, conflicts always see the rise in these groups. The spreading of malicious rumours too, with violence in mind.

@TheBlackDarner Well done you. @RedWingBoots that's dreadful. I saw that guardian article too.My son lives in Poland and he says its quite common. They get away with paying African students less, often, as well. It's a particularly right wing country.

I dont know if the change.org petitions achieve anything but there is one on this issue so i thought i'd flag it up here. I hope someone listens to it.
Its called 'Provide safe passage for Africans and all People of Colour out of Ukraine'

This is what I wanted to post -
www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/shelagh-fogarty/black-medic-queuing-at-border-says-only-ukrainians-flee/

@TheVeryThing

It's really horrifying to hear these stories. This young woman sounds remarkable calm, www.rte.ie/news/2022/0303/1284245-student-stranded-ukraine/ How awful that she has to worry about possible racist treatment on top of everything else. As if being trapped in a war zone wasn't enough!

She does sound so calm TheVeryThing And yet, as she says, she is very aware that people see her skin colour before the Irish Passport.