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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

OI! Homophobes! Over here!

682 replies

ooojimaflip · 10/12/2009 17:23

I'm genuinly interested in why you object to homosexuality, and everytime I ask on the other thread it gets lost in the general hubbub.

So - name change if you want, but please tell me what your objections are?

If it's because it's not natural or against biology, please expand your answer to include why you care about that.

Show your working for extra credit.

n.b. Don't bother if it's a religous justification, you'll need to find someone who believes in that kind of stuff to debate with as I'll just dismiss that out of hand. If you are a homopohbic religous person with a secular objection then please go ahead.

OP posts:
Original poster
ooojimaflip · 10/12/2009 23:10

Oblomov - more or less

OP posts:
standandeliver · 10/12/2009 23:10

"If homosexuality conferred an evolutionary advantage then how do you rationalise the fact that it damages the individual's body and creates a killer disease?"

But the vast majority of people with HIV around the world are heterosexual aren't they?

sprouting · 10/12/2009 23:12

Notanamechanger, do you think you might be better off teaching your boy not to be a slut, rather than teaching him not to be gay? I wouldn't want my children having sex in an underpass either but not from a homophobic stance.

Original poster
ooojimaflip · 10/12/2009 23:13

Sugerberry - please refer to the OP

"
If it's because it's not natural or against biology, please expand your answer to include why you care about that.

Show your working for extra credit."

OP posts:
Notanamechanger · 10/12/2009 23:13

Standanddeliver - it originated in the gay population and its spread through the heterosexual population has been largely due to the Vatican's stance on condoms and suppression of women's rights in developing countries.

standandeliver · 10/12/2009 23:14

Notnamechanger - on what evidence do you base your belief that homosexual desires are 'acquired' rather than 'innate'?

Notanamechanger · 10/12/2009 23:15

Yes, and I'd best go teach the whole gay cottaging scene to change their ways too

daftpunk · 10/12/2009 23:15

oooji;

i don't believe homosexuals are born..infact i think that's total rubbish...

what gay men do to each other is far from "normal"...and if anyone thinks it is, they need to see a doctor...

Original poster
ooojimaflip · 10/12/2009 23:16

Namechanger - so you are anti-anal not anti-gay then?

I don't fancy butch lesbians, but then I don't fancy lots of people or sexual behaviours, but there you go.

OP posts:
standandeliver · 10/12/2009 23:17

"Standanddeliver - it originated in the gay population"

What - even in those countries where homosexuality is illegal and is punished by imprisonment or execution?

And surely the spread of HIV in both the heterosexual and gay populations is down to people having sex without protection?

Notanamechanger · 10/12/2009 23:18

That was to sprouting btw.

Stabdandeliver - because there is no function for homosexuals in a population from biological point of view. And because a very high proprtion of my gay friends had been sexually abused or had violent parents of the opposite sex.

daftpunk · 10/12/2009 23:19

aids was spread by gay men...

or was that a massive lie..?

Original poster
ooojimaflip · 10/12/2009 23:19

daftpunk - but why do you care what they do with each other? For me at least nature/nutrure is a red herring - I don't see why an explantion for a behaviour makes it more or less acceptable.

OP posts:
Notanamechanger · 10/12/2009 23:23

Standanddeliver - of you belive there is no homosexuality in countries where it is illegal, then you are seriously naive.

In those countries, more than any others, safe sex was not an option. Free condoms and lube on Hampstead Heath - tick. In illegal countries - er, think not somehow!

Original poster
ooojimaflip · 10/12/2009 23:23

Aids originated in monkeys. One of the first people to bring it to the west was gay and initially it spread in that commnity. It spreads more virlulently through IV drug users, but the majority of infections are now from hetrosexual sex. This is mainly between migrant or peripatetic workers in developing countries.

There is evidence that it has been around for a lot longer than is generally believed, but became more virulent in the second half of the twentieth century.

OP posts:
sprouting · 10/12/2009 23:27

HIV didn't originate in the gay population. It spread faster in the gay population initially but not any more.

The american evangelical church has done much to stop condom use in Africa. George W moved US public money out of the global fund to fight AIDS and channeled it through groups that will only fund 'abstinance only' projects in African countries. He also tried to stop access to generic antivirals for African nations. I'm not saying the vatican stance is correct but their influence is small compared with the US and their massive aid programmes available for condom free people only.

Original poster
ooojimaflip · 10/12/2009 23:28

Anyway - Daftpunk - are you like notanamechanger then and what you object to is anal sex rather than homosexuality?

OP posts:
daftpunk · 10/12/2009 23:28

the male human body is not designed for homosexuality...

lesbians don't bother me so much..i'm sure they make good parents and what they do to each other in bed is no big deal....

keeps the porn industry going..

sprouting · 10/12/2009 23:28

"Yes, and I'd best go teach the whole gay cottaging scene to change their ways too "

Is this to me? I don't get it. What do you mean?

Notanamechanger · 10/12/2009 23:29

Yes, and monkeys practise anal sex.

And the reason it is now more virulent in the heterosexual population is that the gay population have taken up the message, but prositutes in developing countries cannot afford to make their customers wear a condom, or their family won't eat that night.

I notice you're really going after the AIDS argument, but nobody's touched the butch lesbian (not bloody surprising, tbh)

Blu · 10/12/2009 23:30

MeltedChoc - intellectually I understand the difference between a belief, and not judging - LOL - it's what I aspire to over lots of things! However, emotionally, I worry whether it is watertight. Buy which I mean, one of my oldest closest friends is gay, and he has parents who think just like you. They are lovely, lovely people. they love him. They (have taken a deep breath and) have accepted his life, hosted his partner...and yet..and yet...he knows they have made an intellectual decision that this is the 'right' way to approach the life of their son, he knows they haven't just embraced him and loved him, he knows that they are so much more comfortable with his straight brother, he was deeply hurt when they didn't quite manage to respond to the death of his partner as they would to the death of thier SIL (even though they were sympathetic and sorry). In short he feels alienated, and though he loves his parents, it is through a numbed layer of scar tissue.

I know you have listened to scripture etc, and come to your own level on this - but have you listened to the gay children of parents who thought thier sexuality not...not quite the same in some way?

But we are a generation younger than those parents. LOL - my own mother , when I was a child, used to say 'I'm not racist' (and she wasn't, not really) 'but I worry about inter-racial marriages, because it isn't fair on the children, is it?'. And guess what? She has a mixed race grandchild, and she would run her Nissam Micra over the first peson who said they thought my relationship wasn;t fair on her beloved grandson! So, we all evolve with experience and time, and none of us really know how we would react or feel whn something is right there in front of us in the lives of our children.

Notanamechanger · 10/12/2009 23:32

Sprouting - if you think George W Bush had more influence than the Vatican, then rofl, tbh.

My cottaging remark was in response to your advice to make usre my ds doesn't grow up to be a slut - like my friend, presumably.

Homosexual males are promiscuous - fact. They enjoy casual sex with strangers - fact.

daftpunk · 10/12/2009 23:32

i think it is the anal sex thing...homophobia is 99% about men...

Original poster
ooojimaflip · 10/12/2009 23:33

the male human body is not designed to go to the moon, fly in an aeroplane or to work in a factory making clothes for Primark. Why does it matter what it is 'designed' for?

OP posts:
daftpunk · 10/12/2009 23:34

that is a fact notanamechanger...

i used to live near Vauxhall (very gay area of London)...lots of gay clubs...gay men like a good time.....best way i can put it.