To just despair at kids today?

[itsadlibitum]

DD, 12, is struggling socially at school. We suspect she has ADHD and as social interactions have become more complex she’s struggling with it. While she’s generally empathetic and means well she can be impulsive in what she says which doesn’t always land great with friends. I get she won’t be everyone’s cup of tea. But what I don’t get is the nastiness. She’s been attacked at school, she’s been threatened to be beat up, she’s been frozen out by a group of popular girls who told everyone not to talk to her, she’s she then left them alone they pursued her relentlessly at schools with confrontations o er various accusations, including waiting for her outside the toilets etc. she’s been called a ginger cunt, regularly is told to shut the fuck up, told her parents should have used a condom, everyone hates her etc etc etc. the This is all over minor arguments.

DD is scared and now hates school. She’s miserable and stressed. School isn’t being particularly helpful is helping to resolve it, but that’s an entirely different post.

i remember arguments and bitchiness from my own childhood of course. Girls have always been mean. But the severity and nastiness is just so shocking to me. I feel like she’s completely unraveling and there isn’t anything I can do to help her.

AIBU to think that children now a days are just loads meaner than they used to be? Or was I just lucky and this is “normal”. Struggling with a decent reference point here.

This isn’t normal and don’t think the majority of children act like that . Speak to the school or change school if needed . I’m saying that with 3 kids and two that have now finished school . This is not acceptable.

I remember this kind of behaviour from my teen years (not primary but there were beginnings of it. Definitely in secondary).

All it takes is for a child to become a target of a confident girly mob and for other kids to stay out the way if it for fear of becoming a target themselves.

It's really sad and I feel for your daughter.

Does she attend any clubs where she could meet others?

We are in Kent, maybe a Kent thing?

yeah DD has definitely found herself in weakness territory and is not an easy target. We are trying to change schools but everything is oversubscribed. She doesn’t want to do clubs, as she struggles just with school. It’s ruined her confidence.

The behaviour you describe sounds terrible but

While she’s generally empathetic and means well she can be impulsive in what she says which doesn’t always land great with friends

You want everyone to be understanding of your daughters issues because of ADHD but you put everyone else’s down to meanness?

We had this. We went private. Best thing we ever did. Some kids are just feral.

I would take her out of school and do homeschooling until she is able to get into another school. This will scar her and the longer you keep her in that horrible environment the deeper her scars will be. If you work full time, prepare work for her to do while you're at work and go over things in the evenings or at the weekend with her. I know it's not ideal or perfect but it would be temporary until she gets a place at a different school. Leaving her in a place where she is basically getting abused is awful

No, I’m just saying it’s not like she’s doing nothing at all. But the reaction is disproportionate. She has an argument, mean comments are exchanged both ways, she apologises (as we’ve told her to do if she says something hurtful) and then told apology not accepted, you’ll regret this you cunt, and is then frozen out and repeatedly confronted for weeks on end.

I remember this and worse and I left secondary in the mid 2000s.

@itsadlibitum

AIBU to think that children now a days are just loads meaner than they used to be?

Nope. Nothing's changed. What your DD has suffered sounds very similar to how I was bullied 50 years ago - 5 sodding years of it throughout my time at our town's "crap comp". Back then, no one really cared, it was just "one of those things", but now, people pretend to care, schools pretend to have anti-bullying and safeguarding policies, but it still goes on.

I'd VERY strongly advise you/her to change schools before any more damage is done. A new start somewhere different may make a real difference.

Nail on the head. I wholeheartedly agree. She needs taking away from such a toxic environment.

Actually, not that it is any consolation to you and your dd, but kids were absolutely this mean in the 90s. It is dreadful, op. Can you speak to the senco in the school and see if they can reduce her exposure to these kids during lunch/ breaks? Or could shifting schools be an option?

Sorry to hear those of you that experienced the bullying. What helped? Did it get better?

we will struggle to afford private, the cheapest is £8k a term, and the local schools are all oversubscribed. I am thinking of home schooling but she’s a social person and think she would hate being stuck at home.

I am so sorry that your daughter is going through this, it must be very distressing for you all.

My own personal belief is that young people today aren’t any crueler or less cruel than they were - although the online world does raise the stakes, I think.

I do think a particular friendship group, or class, or even whole school can fall into a culture of unkindness, though. If it’s viable, it might be worth considering home schooling, at least for a while, especially if there are good extra curricular networks around your area where she can also get her social needs met.

Home ed can be very social. It's worth looking into what groups are around. There may even be co-eds or flexischool days about where you can drop her off. Home ed is not an antisocial option.

I agree it sounds like acting now with either an immediate school change or removing her to home ed would save her confidence.

I’m not sure it’s got worse, when I tell my teens stories of school in the early 2000s they are shocked and says no one really bullied anyone now a days so maybe it’s a school thing? They are both ND and say no one really gets bullied anymore so try changing schools.

Same. I just went in this week because child was being really annoying to my child and their place is next to them.
THAT child was moved the next day. I love that it wasn’t my child who was made to move from their group. The other one is known to be an annoying child too.

Op even if your dd did say a few things, this is a pack of vile bullies taking it to the next level. At our schools these types would be severely dealt with. I also love that at private you can exclude without jumping through hoops. I’m so sorry your dd is being bullied like this, don’t let it go. Make a big deal of it with the school.

@itsadlibitum

Sorry to hear those of you that experienced the bullying. What helped? Did it get better?

Nope, not at all. Even after repeatedly telling teachers what was happening, they still arranged classroom seating plans and set work groups putting me next to the bullies. (Two of whom had surnames either side of mine, so when teachers lazily set groups or seating plans according to surname, I was always sat with one of them!). It obviously affected my learning as I couldn't really learn when sat next to someone who would be repeatedly attacking me or abusing me and then passing it off as "banter".

I've ended up having a lifetime of low confidence, socially awkward, have trouble trusting people becoming friends, etc.

The only escape was leaving that hell hole of a school and I made sure I never even drove past it for the next few decades. When we were taking DS on visits to decide which secondary school he was going to, it was one of the ones he wanted to look at. I tried to dissuade him, but some of his friends were going there. I was physically sick at the main door and had to stay outside, letting DS go in with DH to look around. Thankfully they decided it wasn't for him. I simply couldn't have coped with having to go for parents' evenings or other school events.

I know you said no to clubs (or she said no to clubs) but if you homeschool she might change her mind. My DD was bullied horrifically and although she did change schools one thing that helped was her starting kickboxing. Not because she started using the moves on her bullies but because it gave her confidence and because the kids knew she was getting stronger.
It might be that joining a club is a turning point. However I think you need to remove her from the school first. Maybe homeschool while waiting for another placement. Then consider a club of some sort if your DD is willing.
My DD is autistic and doing kickboxing really helps with reducing meltdowns and if she's ever annoyed kickboxing gets rid of the anger.

But the reaction is disproportionate
Maybe, maybe not.

The difficulty is that you can only go by what your DD is telling you and what she will tell you is her perspective of the situations.

Maybe the other girls are saying that your daughter is mean and she's making things up.

In the end, it is better for your DD to control her own behaviour and choices. She needs to select her friends better going forward and really work in her impulsiveness because this will in all likelihood have an impact on the relationships she builds.

Ah yes, the old victim blaming, of the person being bullied being blamed. Been there, done that, got the T shirt. It's a load of bollocks. Bullies are bullies. They WILL go and bully someone else when the OP's DD moves schools. Blaming the victim is the worst thing to do and will erode their confidence even more.

They might be ND themselves in fact the odds seem pretty high now.

Ah yes, the old victim blaming, of the person being bullied being blamed
No it's not victim blaming, it's about expanding your horizon further than your own closed mindset.

Self reflection is not accepting other people's nastiness, it's learning about other people's behaviour AND our own.

It's easy to just assume people are naturally nasty to perfectly innocent people. It's very rarely that black and white.

Bullies always know exactly who to target.

I don't know if kids are any worse today compared to previous times, this behaviour was a thing in my day too. I do notice on here how a lot of people normalise deliberate meanness in children.

I'm very sorry for your daughter. That sucks.

Apart from the ADHD diagnosis and red hair, you've described my exact year 7 experience, which was in 1984 so I don't think it's 'kids these days' unfortunately. We're not in Kent either.

I thrived after being moved to a new school. I hope your poor DD finds her people soon

Nothing new here. I started secondary in 1985 and it was brutal. In fact I was bullied from primary school through to year 3 secondary. I did improve last couple of years but damage was done by then. I’m probably autistic and/on ADHD (currently on NHS waiting list). Both my teen girls are autistic and have had a much kinder and more accepting experience in school than I did.

We moved DD2 end of year 9 due to bullying and it was the best thing we could have done. Her school were really supportive but she couldn’t shake the bullies. Is this an option for your DD?